Deraldin Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) Haha... Thiaf ! Hopefully we see some Rouges too Thi4f! Brought to you by 31D05! No wait, those numbers actually work... Edited May 11, 2009 by Deraldin
Amentep Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Haha... Thiaf ! Hopefully we see some Rouges too Thi4f! Brought to you by 31D05! No wait, those numbers actually work... Yeah I think you mean 42D16. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Morgoth Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Yeah, proper climbing and large rooftop areas, not the odd climbable tile here and there like T3. Please don't. Garret isn't some monkey. I say keep the rope-arrows in so that the player has to wage/think a little bit, but get that stupid wall climbing out. This isn't some friggin' Tomb Raider. If Garret could climb anywhere, there wouldn't be the certain feel of being vulnerable and exposed to guards anymore. He's physically no super man. Rain makes everything better.
Tel Aviv Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Ion Storm planned to modernize T4. Wonder if Eidos aim to do the same.
Purkake Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Yeah, proper climbing and large rooftop areas, not the odd climbable tile here and there like T3. Please don't. Garret isn't some monkey. I say keep the rope-arrows in so that the player has to wage/think a little bit, but get that stupid wall climbing out. This isn't some friggin' Tomb Raider. If Garret could climb anywhere, there wouldn't be the certain feel of being vulnerable and exposed to guards anymore. He's physically no super man. On a good day you'll get special (glowing neon pink) places where you can use your rope arrows and other special places (neon green) where you can climb up and down. Gotta make sure those blind console people don't miss them...
Slowtrain Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Its easy. Rope arrows can be used wherever arrows can stick. SO, mostly wood, but not stone or metal. I would trade climbing for rope arrows ANY DAY. Rope arrows are awesome. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Purkake Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Its easy. Rope arrows can be used wherever arrows can stick. SO, mostly wood, but not stone or metal. I would trade climbing for rope arrows ANY DAY. Rope arrows are awesome. That sounds like a QA nightmare. The only way to make it fun/useful though...
Slowtrain Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Its easy. Rope arrows can be used wherever arrows can stick. SO, mostly wood, but not stone or metal. I would trade climbing for rope arrows ANY DAY. Rope arrows are awesome. That sounds like a QA nightmare. The only way to make it fun/useful though... Wasn't that the way it was in Thief 1 and 2? Perhaps my memory has failed me in my advancing age. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Morgoth Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I'm more curious about the AI capabilities. Thief with same AI and new graphics won't cut it these days anymore. Rain makes everything better.
Slowtrain Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I'm more curious about the AI capabilities. Thief with same AI and new graphics won't cut it these days anymore. Thief 1 and 2 AI was pretty excellent for its day though. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Morgoth Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I'm more curious about the AI capabilities. Thief with same AI and new graphics won't cut it these days anymore. Thief 1 and 2 AI was pretty excellent for its day though. Yes, but it won't be enough for a 2011 (?) game anymore. They really have to make the guards as challenging and invigorating as in the past titles again, for present standards. Rain makes everything better.
Slowtrain Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I'm more curious about the AI capabilities. Thief with same AI and new graphics won't cut it these days anymore. Thief 1 and 2 AI was pretty excellent for its day though. Yes, but it won't be enough for a 2011 (?) game anymore. They really have to make the guards as challenging and invigorating as in the past titles again, for present standards. I agree. But hopefully the standard has been set by the previous games. Thief needs a good AI to be a fun game. Shooters can get away with a lesser AI and still be enjoyable. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Purkake Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) Wasn't that the way it was in Thief 1 and 2? Perhaps my memory has failed me in my advancing age. They are way more cautious about bugs and stuff these days. Also games have become way more complicated, everything has to work perfectly. I'm more curious about the AI capabilities. Thief with same AI and new graphics won't cut it these days anymore. If there is one thing in games that hasn't advanced at all, it's the AI. The last game that had some interesting AI improvements in terms of enemies was FEAR 1 IIRC. It just takes too much work and doesn't really show much, I guess. Oblivion's "revolutionary" Radiant AI was a complete failure, Stalker's great ecosystem AI was just dogs running across the road in a loop. It's one fail after another these days. Edited May 11, 2009 by Purkake
cronicler Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) Yes, but it won't be enough for a 2011 (?) game anymore. They really have to make the guards as challenging and invigorating as in the past titles again, for present standards. Not to be rude or anything but at the moment I am still trying to rob the museum in T3 with my usual rules (no item use, no kills, no blackjacks. No one is here but us shadows...) I can surely say that even after all these years the guards are still better than modern games. There are about 8 or so different "guard" personalities and they all react subtly different to the clues and anomalies. The drunk, loud and jolly one for example is extremely jumpy and will investigate any noise. The drunk, loud and snide one on the other hand is usually as deaf as stone but he does spot movement more easyly. The whole guard scripts are based on reactive behaviour. Sure the scripts do become inadequate if you play the game Rambo style but as long as you play as a Thief or an Assassin the game goes smoothly. Ps: If you feel the game is too easy then you can also mod the modifiers a bit too. a .1 or .15 increase in senses is enough to make the guards as alert as spec op troops PPS: Crasgirl I know you are attached to your rope arrows but they were a bit too irrational. A bow launched arrow cannot support a naked females weight, let alone a muscled compact person like garret (who is also burdened with a few odd and end and trinkets and memoirs from his visits ) That said, I did also miss having a grappling hook and a deployable rope in a lot of places. Which roof top thief goes out without rope? Edited May 11, 2009 by cronicler IG. We kick ass and not even take names.
Hell Kitty Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 A rope that magically comes out the end of an arrow is pretty ridiculous, but this is one of those times when fun should win out. Rope arrows are awesome. Claims that climbing makes the game like Tomb Raider are ridiculous. Climbing doesn't have to be an easy escape*, if a guard doesn't have a bow then do like Assassin's Creed does and let them throw rocks to knock you down. *To be fair, Thief has always allowed Garrett to get away from guards by climbing to places they can't get to. Hell, you could climb on a table and then fill their face with arrows while they stood there shaking their fist at you.
Tigranes Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 I'm with CG/HK, rope arrows are awesome fun. IMO climbing introduces a lot of difficulties in level design and avoiding exploits / cheese (especially if you're a nimble monkey like in Assassin's Creed); I'd much rather see Garrett stick to those limited rope arrows and perhaps integrate some more animations in terms of clinging to surfaces, rolling and whatnot. As for the AI.... I'd be happy if they managed to keep the old AI, actually. Regardless of what goes on behind the scenes, sometimes it feels like AI are becoming stupider in practice. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
H Posted May 12, 2009 Author Posted May 12, 2009 Ion Storm planned to modernize T4. Wonder if Eidos aim to do the same. Eidos would have made the logo look more "futuristic" if they planned to. Wait a minute... They are way more cautious about bugs and stuff these days. Also games have become way more complicated, everything has to work perfectly. Dark Messiah of Kicking Things into Spiky Spikes had rope arrows, and it's a relatively new game, using a relatively new engine.
cronicler Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Now that you reminded it, DMoM&M was awesome on that regard. Sneak behind the guy/orc/whatever and kick him to his death. Man those moments were golden IG. We kick ass and not even take names.
HoonDing Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Now that you reminded it, DMoM&M was awesome on that regard. Sneak behind the guy/orc/whatever and kick him to his death. Man those moments were golden I wish you could've kicked that (ungodly annoying) sidekick into spiky spikes. Though there is a certain in-game moment that is tremendously rewarding in that regard. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Purkake Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Now that you reminded it, DMoM&M was awesome on that regard. Sneak behind the guy/orc/whatever and kick him to his death. Man those moments were golden I wish you could've kicked that (ungodly annoying) sidekick into spiky spikes. Though there is a certain in-game moment that is tremendously rewarding in that regard. Yeah the chick in your head was way more awesome.
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