Mass Effect 2 to appear in GDC

[Calax]

There's a difference between how easy a game is and how much player 'combat skill' is involved. IWD has almost no combat skill involved; it uses tactical skills.

 

Which uses more player skill, shooting a geth with a gun in ME or hitting a mob with an arrow in Diablo?

 

Or maybe I spent all day looking at < and > and != and >= and <= and I'm a little tired.

 

Don't lie. You spent all day looking at Ed Benes' Red Sonja images.

well << could look like a pair of red sonja's boobies

 

She has more than one pair!?

Well she is a comic book character and there is rule 34 to consider. Also

 

<<

| |

>>

 

looks like a torso view of Red Sonja

[Montgomery Markland]

This thread is really starting to make me want to play Mass Effect again, but there are too many other games to play right now.

 

Why are you guys recommending ME? Did you happen to miss Wrath's memo the last 20 pages?

 

rofl

 

Nightshape - I don't care if you call me a retard, but you should try and be funnier about it. Also, Hershey's will be the first to go.

 

Allow me to appoligise in a most humble fashion for being an arrogant idiot. I should have picked up on your humour.

 

p.s. Hershey's *URGK*.

 

I'm looking forwards to ME2, ME's story was perhaps the most enjoyable experience I've had since BG 1.

 

Honestly apologies not necessary. I wouldn't wrestle in the mud with you guys if my feelings were hurt easily.

[Spider]

There's a difference between how easy a game is and how much player 'combat skill' is involved. IWD has almost no combat skill involved; it uses tactical skills.

 

Which uses more player skill, shooting a geth with a gun in ME or hitting a mob with an arrow in Diablo?

 

Depends on the mob. Hitting one of the faster ones can be more difficult than hitting on of the geths who basically just stood still or ran straight towards you. But player skill includes more than just clicking on the screen. It's also about timing (taking the healing potion before you die, getting your attacks in when defenses are down etc).

 

Besides, even if we only go by aiming, ME had auto-aim. So you as a player didn't need to aim at all.

[Maria Caliban]

Depends on the mob. Hitting one of the faster ones can be more difficult than hitting on of the geths who basically just stood still or ran straight towards you. But player skill includes more than just clicking on the screen. It's also about timing (taking the healing potion before you die, getting your attacks in when defenses are down etc).

 

Besides, even if we only go by aiming, ME had auto-aim. So you as a player didn't need to aim at all.

 

The only geth that did nothing but stand still was the armature.

 

Yes, player skill is more than clicking on the screen. That's why I specified a kind of skill.

 

And yes, with auto-aim, you still had to aim. Moreover, you had to aim at things that weren't in your immedate field of vision. The view point of diablo (third person isometric) meant you had a much large field of view. Yes, something could run up to you quickly, but nothing could run from your field of vision and still attack you. Whether your hit connected or missed had far more to do with your attributes and stats than it did your ability to track something with your mouse on the screen.

[alanschu]

Diablo could be damn hard at times. Just sayin'

[Aristes]

You guys are driving me crazy on Maria's part, even though I know that taking someone's part on the internet is a good way to advertise your backside for arse-kicking practice.

 

Some games require more of the player's dexterity and physical skills. Let's use the Doom example, although any so called twitch game would do. In Doom, you live or die by your shooting reflexes and your reaction time to enemies. However, you still benefit from using your head. You can use the environment to your advantage. You can minimize your exposure to enemy fire. You can approach objectives in clever and innovative ways. So, Doom is our FPS. Twitch game, but you can still benefit from using your head. Now, let's look at Chess. You use your head to win. However, you must be able to raise your head long enough from a puddle of drool to look at the board and move a piece. You might be physically disabled, and you can still win at Chess, but it requires, at the very least, some way to move your pieces or at least convey your moves. Until we develop mental telepathy, there must be some physical action in order to convey the moves, whether it's blinking an eye or wiring complex signals from your gonads.

 

Now, I'm sure that some games might be more or less all reflexive in the way that chess is all cerebral, but breathing really isn't a game, so that's out.

 

Okay, so we have chess, a mental game that's damned hard, either against the computer or a good human player. We have doom that can be damned hard for some folks. The difficulty in each is for different reasons. Since it's not very difficult for most of us to pick up a chess piece and move it, the difficulty comes from trying to form a good strategy or least learn our opening moves. For doom, since it doesn't take much thought for most of us to think "point gun, shoot bad guy!" the difficulty comes from our reflexes and trying to shoot quickly and accurately.

 

Now, without really getting into who's right in the larger action rpg and shooting thing, I will say that there is some overlap. For example, I don't care whether we can it a fps or action adventure or classic RPG, I could very easily strafe and shoot and kill ranged opponents in oblivion. As much as combat relied on stats, the player could use his reflexes to help win. This is true in a lot of RPGs, even classic one. Sure, much less in turn based games where the most strenuous physical skill the player has is pushing the on button on the computer, but many classic rpgs allowed the player to take advantage of good reflexes to help overcome encounters.

 

So, the real problem is establishing categories, which is cool. But the point remains that Maria is right. I hope you forgive me for making an argument for you, btw. Please no arse-kicking practice on my backside. Some games require more reflex, some require more mind, but most games benefit from player physical reactions.

[Maria Caliban]

I think Aristes did an excellent job of explaining my point. Far better than I.

 

Diablo could be damn hard at times. Just sayin'

 

I would not suggest otherwise.

[Hell Kitty]

It's not a real RPG if I can't play it with my balls.