Game Impact

[SirPetrakus]

I have a little dev and writer question, but one I would like to see if other forum members have ever considered.

 

There are lots of games in the market, adventures with great plot and dialogue, shooters pumped with adrenaline, games with characters drawn to life as much by their writers as well as the voice actors impersonating them, but there are a handful few that manage to stir emotion, that actually move you.

 

I don't really want a "baaaaaw" scene where Mike will break down and cry after having senselessly killed 150 henchmen, 49 bunnies and a game boss, but I would really care for a scene, through dialog and visuals, to move me.

 

I don't really care for happy endings or hints at a sequel or whatever, as long as it's portrayed realistically, like Star Was Episode 4: The Empire Strikes Back, it was a very emotionally powerful ending, it meant the continuation of the story and how desperate a situation the Rebels found themselves in, though all was not lost for them. I will admit to being shocked at the ending, first movie I ever saw the good guys lose, but then, as the realization of what I had seen punched in, I felt sad and compelled to cry, I was moved.

 

I DO care for realistically written characters (likable allies, obnoxious neutrally disposed people, villains with some redeeming qualities, etc) whose death or self sacrifice will mean more to me than just "Oh snap! And he was such a good aim!" or "Thank God, we're rid of that schmuck!" or "Take that, you villainous scum!"

 

The only other games or game series to have done something like that to me were the MGS series,certain points of Planescape Torment and even KotoR II and NWN II, so I know I am not expecting too much from you guys, cause you have proven you CAN deliver before, though doing so at an even larger scale would be amazing.

 

Having laid out the context for my question, how were you moved writing/developing/playing AP? Would you consider it a game that overflows you with human emotion or is it a more barren emotionally game? After all, do we not partake in these escapades in order to be moved?

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

Naturally, I can't speak on AP; but I can talk about the general subject.

 

It's my impression that whether a game "moves" people is an emergent quality. By this, I mean that it is the sum of many parts rather than a standalone aspect of a game. Typically, we think of character and plot; and those are important, but presentation counts for a lot as well. It's the sort of thing a lot of games set out to do, but until everything comes together you don't know whether it's going to work.

[SirPetrakus]

Naturally, I can't speak on AP; but I can talk about the general subject.

 

It's my impression that whether a game "moves" people is an emergent quality. By this, I mean that it is the sum of many parts rather than a standalone aspect of a game. Typically, we think of character and plot; and those are important, but presentation counts for a lot as well. It's the sort of thing a lot of games set out to do, but until everything comes together you don't know whether it's going to work.

 

I will agree to this, but there can be certain points in the game where we will see something that will makes us sad, make us want to weep, makes us feel like our character should feel, these things should be conveyed to the player. The dialogue that reveals who The Nameless one is in PS, Visas' confession to the Exile in KotoR II, Sandra's death in NWN or the dialog with Bishop in MotB where you find out what happened to your friends and, perhaps especially, Richard Doyle as Big Boss in the MGS4 ending ... his voice and interpretation was powerful enough to make you break down, almost feeling his pain ...

 

Good writing, good voice acting, that's what makes the experience worth it, that is what moves you, not necessarily what the ending holds, just the moments where the feeling gets through to you. At that moment your character's experience becomes your own and you are richer for it.

 

I hate to admit it, but real life does not provide for epic moments like throwing your weapon at hordes of Tannar'ri and Balors and then jumping into the fray ... I'd like to be able to do so in my virtual lives.

[mkreku]

I think it takes a certain amount of courage for a developer to kill off a well liked character in a game and not alienate the player. Because that's what I think it takes to move a player. I recently watched Wall-E and in the end

Wall-E is crushed by a moving platform and Eve reassembles him back on Earth. When Wall-E is 'resurrected' he doesn't immediately recognize Eve anymore and continues his daily tasks. If the writers would have had that as an ending, I think the movie had been 100% more memorable than it was now. Making Wall-E the hero, yet unable to recognize his achievements would have been so much powerful than the sugar-sweet ending we now got instead

.

 

If a developer can make me care about a character in a game, they have the opportunity to move me, either making me sad or happy. Happy is much harder than sad though. Planescape: Torment had one scene where I read the backstory of Fall-From-Grace.. that was pretty powerful.

[SirPetrakus]

Doesn't necessarily mean that they should kill off somebody, but if they're gonna do it, like in ME where either Ashley or Keidan/what-his-name-was died ... if I was romancing Ashley, I wouldn't let her die over the other guy and my reaction to that would be "and he was such a good aim!" instead of "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" or if I wasn't romancing Ashley and saved the other guy I'd be like "Well, that's one obnoxious bitch less!"

 

BioWare fails to move, Obsidian succeeds, but so far have not tried to do so at a large scale, even franchises like Final Fantasy manage to be more corny than actually sentimental or moving. If Wall-E had the ending you described, it would have been awesome, but all the little kids out to see a Disney movie would walk out of the theater with tears in their eyes and their parents regretting taking them there, probably.

 

Maybe Mike will be a memorable character, his allies will be remembered fondly and even his enemies will be respected by the gaming audience, enough maybe to even see them in geeky character battles on gamefaqs.com. I want AP to be a memorable experience, a moving experience, I want it to be the kind of game that I played through and not just think "that was 50 bucks well spent" , I want to think that this game meant something more to me than just 15 fun gaming hours.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I agree that character is a huge limitation among the necessary components. Quite simply, most current developers either can't do it or choose not to (for fear of alienating the lowest common denominator). By this I don't mean to say that the characters aren't believable or interesting on some level, merely that they seldom develop along a compelling arc.

 

Upon reflection, I think the main problem is a failure to give characters anywhere to go in the story. Static characters are not inherently bad, but they have to be used with care if they get any reasonable amount of screen time. Important plot events, IME, are only poignant if they occur in tandem with important character development events. One of the clearest examples I've ever seen of this is the ending of last year's 3:10 to Yuma remake. By the end of the movie, you find out that both Bale and Russel's characters had compelling personal reasons to act as they did; not just some generic imperative to uphold justice.

 

Mass Effect is a perfect example of a story that is interesting in theory, but rather bland in practice. The universe and characters are meticulously detailed. You can find out the entire life story of many characters, and seldom does anything jump out as "oh, that's stupid/poorly justified." At the same time, I found myself asking "why should I care?" Even my favorite characters remained pretty much the same from start to finish and while the characters have distinct personalities, they're still pretty generic. There are events significant to specific characters, but usually in a very impersonal way (i.e. because Wrex is a Krogan). Furthermore, the entire impetus behind the plot is pretty much "because we want to save/destroy the organic life forms of the galaxy." They may be able to establish auxiliary reasons for trying to do either, but none of them are particularly compelling. Good graphics, interesting setting, good music, decent voice acting, yet the overall experience falls a little short (don't get me wrong, I love the game, but it's missing that extra something). Honestly, I think the best storytelling in ME is probably done in the sidequests such as the ghost ship or the survivor back-story mission.

 

Contrast with Khelgar's arc in NWN2. His desire to become a monk should initially evoke the response of "yeah, right." Through the main plot events, however, he comes to understand the abstract monastic concepts on an emotional level. This is something that, on paper, actually sounds pretty cheesy. A synergy between writing, voice acting, and the settings in which events occur (the church moment was probably my favorite), however, sells the character. Well, it did for me anyway.

 

Like a good story has a beginning, middle, and end; so does a good character. With the protagonist, the ideal is to have important personal events coincide with important plot events. It may be possible to deliver a compelling story with these separate, but offhand I can't really think of any. This is why flashback and other time-trickery is such a major device in film.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure Thornton himself is set up to be a particularly compelling character. Bear with me a moment. At the beginning of the game, Thornton is (so far as we know) pretty much a blank slate by design. This suggests his background is either pretty generic or something that the other characters don't talk about (thus allowing the player to fill in the blanks). His values, priorities, etc. will be chosen by the player during the game. The theory that we'll shape him into a compelling character through the decisions we make in game is an appealing one, but with no real starting point beyond the circumstances of the plot I'll believe it when I see it. It is challenging to make a compelling character arc for the protagonist in a story, it is *extremely* challenging to make several. That said, I suppose if any current developer were up to the task, it'd be Obsidian.

 

Alternately, perhaps Thornton is only a blank slate in terms of his skills, and the character arc is mostly predetermined with a few deicisions that slightly tweak the existing plot. It sounds like I'm badmouthing this version, but in truth it probably has a higher chance of success.

[SirPetrakus]

I will have to agree with you again Cl, you speak the truth! Yes, the elements leading to the end should in some way bring forth a grand revelation that will leave us all weeping, begging, clawing for more, with a sad emotion of fulfillment, yet unsatisfied. But, like you stated yourself, each story and each hero has a beginning, a middle and an ending, I want it to be filled with breathtaking moments, not just the ending.

 

NWN2 OC was filled with nice moments, the scene at the tavern where the whole group is gathered, some arguing, some having fun, though everyone was clearly enjoying it, but the ending ... was a little bland. It's little touches like that, where the whole gang seems to come together, that make stories memorable, plausible, yours.

 

It's like Wals had said in a post somewhere, it's little things like that which bring characters to life. I'd like to add that it doesn't only bring a character to life, it brings the whole experience to life and, in a way, affects you, changes you, moves you.

 

Like you said, there is no doubt that of all the companies, Obs is probably the one to pull it off, not the only one, but one of the very few gaming houses that can make such a story. I think Ubisoft did it with the re-made PoP series, some moments, like in the beginning of the third installment ... yes, you know what I'm talking about! But other than that, I haven't played any other game to instill any strong emotion. Not from a western company at least. Capcom, Square and Konami manage to hit the spot on occasion, especially in Konami's MGS series.

[Oblarg]

From what I've experienced, the thing that adds that kind of depth to a game is dialogue. That's not to say that kind of depth is the only thing that makes a game great - I love Mass Effect, even with it's somewhat lacking dialogue, because the story is amazing. But if you want to truly feel attached to characters in a game, they have to have well written lines that really create a personality. Mass Effect was lacking in this in that the personalities were all somewhat shallow.

 

This is why I'm glad it's obsidian making Alpha Protocol, because KotOR2 simply has the most brilliant dialogue I've seen in a game. Kreia is an example of one of the best developed characters in any RPG to date.