Wrath of Dagon Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 You get reputation with various factions, which affects how they treat you and how certain quests play out, but I'm not aware of a personality meter. There are various approaches you can take, like suave, professional, or forceful. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I didn't like the extremes of "paragon" and "renegade," simply because what is paragon in the eyes of one may be renegade in the eyes of another. Not really. Paragon = follows protocol and directions. Renegade = whatever needed to get the job done. But, like Jade Empire, it was poorly implemented. Which reminds me, any type of personality meter in the game? Dove vs Hawk, Obedient vs Maverick, Isolated vs Friendly? Not exactly, at least not based at all on what was seen in game. Following protocol and directions is waaay to simplified to have an entire extreme of your personality based on it. And it's not just protocol, saving the colonists on Feros wasn't "protocol," in fact, there is no protocol for Spectres. Paragon is nice, Renegade is mean. It's as simple as that, and that's why Mass Effect has shallow characters. It's a great game, with a plot that is anything but shallow, however the characters are lacking. The characters in KotOR1 were slightly better, but they, too, were a bit lackluster until KotOR2 came along and expanded on them. Revan was no longer "all good" or "all evil," and his "fall" fell into question. A character cannot have absolutes to be deep, there have to be questions and ambiguity. This is true in all forms of storytelling, in literature, in movies, and also in video games. This is why I'm glad it's Obsidian making this game, as they have the ability to pull it off. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cl_Flushentityhero Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Whoa, hold on. How did Mass Effect have a deep story? Unless I missed something, the entire plot premise is a race of machines that wipes out all organic life because . . . well . . . it creates an excuse for the player to shoot them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Whoa, hold on. How did Mass Effect have a deep story? Unless I missed something, the entire plot premise is a race of machines that wipes out all organic life because . . . well . . . it creates an excuse for the player to shoot them. Ambiguity adds depth, to an extent. I'm sure the reason will be revealed later on. It's not simply because it gives us an excuse to shoot them. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 You're there to stop the apocalypse from happening, where's the ambiguity exactly? It's silly to think the Reavers as anything other than Shadows/Inhibitors/(insert random alien machine threat here). A clear villain with clear objectives. The only ambiguity was in Saren, but I failed to see how exactly he had more depth than, say, Malak. A much more competent VO and better lines though. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Yes, ME story sucked, but what does it have to do with AP? "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cycloneman Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Renegade = whatever needed to get the job done.That's simply untrue. If it were, why are so many "Intimidate" options simply "Act Like A Colossal Wanker"? How does it get your job done any better if you sow dissent in your crew with racist statements? How does it get your job better if you insult your crewmembers or the people you're trying to help? I don't post if I don't have anything to say, which I guess makes me better than the rest of your so-called "community." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 You're right, the Renegade was mostly a jerk, instead of a ruthless person acting for the greater good like I was hoping. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cl_Flushentityhero Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Seriously? I liked most of the intimidate options that I saw. For example the "Shepard fan" who wants to join you but obviously isn't cut out for it. Intimidate: *draw your gun* I'm a bad guy, now stop me from killing you. I guess maybe that falls under the colossal wanker category, but I thought it was fun. Maybe I just happen to use intimidate at the right times. I haven't done a playthrough where I just go around trying to intimidate everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Whether they were fun isn't the point though. The point is you don't really need to pull a gun to tell someone to get lost, unless they don't take the hint in the first place. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 You're there to stop the apocalypse from happening, where's the ambiguity exactly? It's silly to think the Reavers as anything other than Shadows/Inhibitors/(insert random alien machine threat here). A clear villain with clear objectives. The only ambiguity was in Saren, but I failed to see how exactly he had more depth than, say, Malak. A much more competent VO and better lines though. You still don't know why the reapers exist. You don't know what exactly they are. You don't know what made them. There's a lot of room for expansion in there - that's what makes a good plot. I loved the Mass Effect universe and story, they're in-depth and well thought out. But that's not my point, and I fear we've gone off on a bit of a tangent here. My point is that deep characters are created through dialogue and interactions with the player. You cannot have a deep character with simplistic dialogue: Mass Effect and KotOR1 are proof enough of that fact (in fact, the only character in KotOR1 that I found to have any depth at all was Jolee Bindo). "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Renegade = whatever needed to get the job done.That's simply untrue. If it were, why are so many "Intimidate" options simply "Act Like A Colossal Wanker"? How does it get your job done any better if you sow dissent in your crew with racist statements? How does it get your job better if you insult your crewmembers or the people you're trying to help? The answer to that is in the post you quoted and then edited. How about reading the entire thing instead of once sentence? "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Yes, ME story sucked "Sucked" is an overstatement, I thought it was generally better than the last two Bio games, which isn't much, but quite decent all the same. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cl_Flushentityhero Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Whether they were fun isn't the point though. The point is you don't really need to pull a gun to tell someone to get lost, unless they don't take the hint in the first place. He didn't, and you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Dagon Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Not sure about that, I don't remember threatening him, but I did get rid of him. Actually ME did a decent job of implementing Renegade at first, when it was just verbal choices, but later in the game it's pretty much either do what's sensible or kill someone for no particular reason. Thus at first I was getting nothing but renegade points, but by the end I was almost entirely paragon. Edited October 23, 2008 by Wrath of Dagon "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cl_Flushentityhero Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 You can persuade him if you have the diplomacy skill, but if you don't you need to threaten him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuhlka Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 I guess you don't understand the word specifically. Let's list some... The ability to sneak through a mission and not kill anyone? I believe that is in the game. Will there be consequences for doing that (in that it makes Anna dislike you more for being a pacifict, but you get some better reaction and items from certain people for doing that approach)? Id... assume so. The ability to hack computers? I'd assume that is in. The ability to hack turrets & walking computer constructs? Well since this is based on present day, I'd assume no. The ability to hack video cameras? I'd assume that is in. Alternate ways of killing people (Say use LAM's to blow up Anna Navaro on the plane... I love doing that!). I'll assume this also is in game. A way to save certain NPC's if you somehow creativity approach a certain situation (such as Paul/Jock)? I'll assume so. Anything else I am missing? *giddy chuckle* Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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