Tigranes Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 You people post way too much when I'm not here. Bad. walkerguy, you said killing was evil, except in war or [something else i forget]. So is killing okay in war? Can you explain to me why killing in war is different from other sorts of killing, and why the declaration of warfare makes killing okay? This isn't a rhetorical question with the sole aim of being facetious; I genuinely think that if I am to understand why you would say this, I (and others) would need you to explain this specifically. When we look at controversial issues in society right now such as gay rights, abortion and sexual equality, it is easy to see how both sides can believe in completely different things, but believe they are 'right'. Completely different ideas of what is 'good' and 'evil'. So, walkerguy, I am assuming you are a Christian. If you were born in the 1600s, you might have been Christian. But just as you say "Genocide = evil, period" right now, you might have been saying, "black people are inferior, period". If you were born in 1000 BC, you might be saying, "certain races of people will never go to Heaven, period". If you were born two hundred years later, you might be saying, "I am Catholic Christian and therefore I fully support homosexual rights and abortion". Once again I stress. I am not saying, abandon your sense of good and evil. I am not saying that nothing is good and nothing is evil. Of course not, we could never live like that. But we have to always try to understand WHY we think something is good and evil; we have to understand where our value system comes from. We can't just say, "Genocide? Ugh, of course that's evil! But killing in war and [X] is okay. Why? It just is!". That leads to a life where you think you have done good or stopped evil, but maybe you haven't at all. You are not in control of your own life. This applies to the Christian life as well, walkerguy. I go to Church, and while I wouldn't say I am fully committed to God and Christianity at this point in time, I believe there is value in the church life and I am still at an 'undecided stage'. But anyway. You might say, 'my sense of good and evil are absolute and certain because I am just following what God has told me to do.' If you were, that would be fine. But it only takes one look at the world to see millions of very devout, very faithful Christians who have completely different viewpoints. Heck, the Christian doctrine tells us to pray and read the Bible on a regular basis, so that we may try and find out what God wants us to do and not go astray. Being a Christian is essentially a continuous system of self-discipline and self-surveillance (I don't mean this in a negative way). The minute a Christian says, "Of course I know what is good and evil, of course I know what God wants me to do, there's no need to double-check", he stops that process; he essentially stops listening to God, and is acting on his own instincts and his own habits. I hope that makes a little bit more sense; nobody is trying to say "there is no good and evil", and Hell Kitty is not trying to say everyone should go out and genocide. But on the other side of the spectrum, it is very dangerous and tragic for a person never to think about why they believe something is good or evil. Questioning yourself, furthermore, doesn't mean you become indecisive and lose confidence; it should mean that you are actually being truer to yourself. Yes, I know I sound like a self-help book here, but I wanted to avoid using technical terminology in this post, to see if that works better. If I sound patronising at any point, please excuse - not the intention. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Deadly_Nightshade Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 ...nobody is trying to say "there is no good and evil"... I am not quite sure about this point, as I, and several other posters, said that "good" and "evil" are merely concepts and thus are open to individual and cultural interpretation. To quote myself: "...everything in this world is debatable - there are no absolutes, no inherently good, and no inherently evil." "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
Tigranes Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Fair enough, if I have misrepresented you. But would you say that you yourself therefore live with no morality? Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Deadly_Nightshade Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 But would you say that you yourself therefore live with no morality? No, but I would not say that my morals are written is stone either. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
Humodour Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 I acknowledge that good and evil are human concepts and thus their value and strength depend on our societies. However, the fact that all societies around the world have evolved to generally eschew acts which invalidate an individual's human rights, I think it is fair to dub such acts as 'evil', whilst the reverse, actively upholding another's human rights, is 'good'. Anybody who wants to get by in human society thus needs to live by these standards, or they are evil.
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 I acknowledge that good and evil are human concepts and thus their value and strength depend on our societies. However, the fact that all societies around the world have evolved to generally eschew acts which invalidate an individual's human rights, I think it is fair to dub such acts as 'evil', whilst the reverse, actively upholding another's human rights, is 'good'. Anybody who wants to get by in human society thus needs to live by these standards, or they are evil. YAY! I'm an evil baby eating monster... "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me
Humodour Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 I acknowledge that good and evil are human concepts and thus their value and strength depend on our societies. However, the fact that all societies around the world have evolved to generally eschew acts which invalidate an individual's human rights, I think it is fair to dub such acts as 'evil', whilst the reverse, actively upholding another's human rights, is 'good'. Anybody who wants to get by in human society thus needs to live by these standards, or they are evil. YAY! I'm an evil baby eating monster... What, did you lose the ability to comprehend my post because I didn't put the second evil quotes?
Humodour Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 Oh wow. Actual proof against the existence of God:
@\NightandtheShape/@ Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Anybody who wants to get by in human society thus needs to live by these standards, or they are evil. I was more saying I won't love by societies standards, but my own... It was also supposed to be funny. "I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me
Humodour Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 Anybody who wants to get by in human society thus needs to live by these standards, or they are evil. I was more saying I won't love by societies standards, but my own... It was also supposed to be funny. Oh. Sorry. I'm not making any qualitative judgement about society's standards of good/evil; just pointing out that whilst they are man-made, they're far less relative and intangible than some people in this thread are claiming.
Xard Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Oh wow. Actual proof against the existence of God: oh no damnit How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)
Nick_i_am Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Oh wow. Actual proof against the existence of God: Son of a..... (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Guest The Architect Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Oh wow. Actual proof against the existence of God: Hahaha!
Xard Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) I haven't been rickrolled since initially bumping into it :/ Edited March 21, 2008 by Xard How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)
Sand Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Oh wow. Actual proof against the existence of God: No. That is just proof that God is, indeed, a jerk. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Musopticon? Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Rickroll goddamn. No matter, I think the song is rather catchy. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
Istima Loke Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 link I think it is somewhat fitting (at least partially) with the conversation. I don't post in as an attempt to say something, or argue over anything. I just remembered it because of the whole conversation, and though about posting it. Sharing is good. I think therefore I am? Could be! Or is it really someone else Who only thinks he's me?
walkerguy Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) > < Simply put. Edited March 21, 2008 by walkerguy Twitter | @Insevin
Xard Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) So having free will is evil? What kind of worm you have made yourself through bad faith? Edited March 21, 2008 by Xard How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)
Deadly_Nightshade Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 > < Simply put. Simply put: Everyone has free will, "good" and "evil" are concepts invented by the human mind. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
Hurlshort Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 I'd say technically, anytime there is a victim in a situation, you have a situation with a degree of evilness. The more victimization, whether in number of victims or level of victimization sustained, the more evil. Example, if I pinch you, minor evil, if I stab you, bigger evil.
walkerguy Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) That article is completely against what I beleive in besides a handful of matters such as free will. Good and evil are also not concepts in my opinion, so lets drop this pointless spitting and talk about Krezack's pretty little shell again, and why "it isn't always god". ALSO: And no, you were not just doing that, so get on with it. Edited March 21, 2008 by walkerguy Twitter | @Insevin
Deadly_Nightshade Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Amazing, you once again managed to contribute nothing! "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
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