Thoughts on Mandatory Combat

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

IMO its has a lot, but what does this have to do with reducing the number of mundane combat encounter, which have absolutely no bearing on the game? If it makes you happy IMO if a game offers you the ability to play a certain character then that same game should allow you to play that character to its fullest. Games like Fallout and Arcanum come very close to letting you do that. Others don't even try.

 

But again, you the drama queen, raises an issue that has no bearing on the fact that there is no need for redundant and mundane combat in a game, which plays more like an adventure game. IMO they should keep the encounters low in number, not whoring out my jedi abilities.

 

Actually I am. The reason is because Dave dodge the question Gaider loves to state how important the story driven nature to the game is and how important character and NPC development are. I want to get rid of the excess fat, which serves no purpose but pad 4-5 extra hours of unnecessary combat just so they can say its a 30 hours experience, which its not.

 

If the game was meant to be a tactical combat RPG like ToEE, Silent Storm, or JA2 then I would have no problem with other people saying to remove unecessary talkie bits if they reduced the quality of the game. My question to Obsidian is does all the redundant and mundane combat improve the quality of the game, or does all the whoring of jedi combat reduce the quality. IMO if it does not improve the quality, which I am sure it does not, then let the non-combat character have an oppurtunity to avoid it.

 

Now your turn to make absurd analogies and pointless examples which do not pertain to topics on hands about topics on hand like pirates. My god your a loser...

Well your opinion would be wrong then wouldnt it. A pure anything path is stupid just like real people characters should have to confront a variety of situations. Some they may be better equipped for than others.

 

What do you mean no bearing on the game. It shows there are a lot of Sith and they really dont like you or the Jedi order very much.In the case of creature encounters, dont go into their territory would be the message there. Of course if you have no choice then they have no choice to but to defend said territory.

 

To do otherwise would be like sending a few 100 people to defend your country when you have a couple of million. It gives a sense of scale.

 

Some people like the high encounter level your no more important than they are.

 

If you have issues with Dave then why not take them up with Dave? Dave has designed a bunch of million+ selling games so I tend to think Dave may well know what he is doing even if it dosnt meet your personal approval.

 

Whats that got to do with anything? There should be no such thing as a non combat character. Such a thing is an abheration that has nothing to do with roleplaying.

 

Poor thing do I frustrate your debating skills that much

[triCritical]

I did so well ignoring you in the past, I think I will start again. Here's why,

 

Well your opinion would be wrong then wouldnt it. A pure anything path is stupid just like real people characters should have to confront a variety of situations. Some they may be better equipped for than others.

 

Shoulda, woulda, coulda... What does this have to do about anything. I am not talking about pure anything you putz. You and other drama queen's kept on bringing that up and I guess I am the dip for biting. no more...

 

What do you mean no bearing on the game. It shows there are a lot of Sith and they really dont like you or the Jedi order very much.In the case of creature encounters, dont go into their territory would be the message there. Of course if you have no choice then they have no choice to but to defend said territory. 

 

This makes no sense, since Sith have no idea if I am sith or not????

 

To do otherwise would be like sending a few 100 people to defend your country when you have a couple of million. It gives a sense of scale.

 

Here's where you go off the deep end.

 

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???????? STICK TO THE TOPIC ON HAND, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GAMES!!!!!!

 

Some people like the high encounter level your no more important than they are.

 

ARE YOU DAFT???? CAN YOU READ?????

 

I am asking for the mandatory to be removed you putz!!!!! That means it can still be an options, DUH!!!

 

If you have issues with Dave then why not take them up with Dave? Dave has designed a bunch of million+ selling games so I tend to think Dave may well know what he is doing even if it dosnt meet your personal approval.

 

Huh??

 

Whats that got to do with anything? There should be no such thing as a non combat character. Such a thing is an abheration that has nothing to do with roleplaying.

 

Again you bring up the complete extreme, which was never what I intended. Your just laughable, I can tell you over and over and over again, that this was not my intent and you will keep on bringing it up like a stupid little doggie chasing their tail.

 

Poor thing do I frustrate your debating skills that much

 

Your stupidity frustrates me.

 

I always forget that you keep on responding with more and more gibberish.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda...  What does this have to do about anything.  I am not tlaking about pure anything you putz.  You and other drama queen's kept on bringing that up and I guess I am the dip for biting. no more...

 

This makes no sense, since Sith have no idea if I am sith or not????

 

Here's where you go off the deep end.

 

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????????  STICK TO THE TOPIC ON HAND, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GAMES!!!!!!

 

Some people like the high encounter level your no more important than they are.

 

ARE YOU DAFT???? CAN YOU READ?????

 

I am asking for the mandatory to be removed you putz!!!!! That means it can still be an options, DUH!!!

 

Your stupidity frustrates me.

 

I always forget that you keep on responding with more and more gibberish.

Then why answer "IMO it has a lot"

 

Your working for the Jedi your previous identity isnt important at the time.

 

I think you need you need to re evalute who you call dense.

 

In the context of the game everything is real. Malak is real and he has real goals and aspirations. He also has a large number of fanatical followers which he dispatches to stop your incursions into his "territory". His followers have one goal, to kill you they dont want to have tea and biscuits or go down the pub for a pint.

If you cant understand that then why play roleplaying games?

 

Yes and I'm telling you that unless you can find a reason why it should be removed in the reality context of the world then your talking crap.

 

Well you brought up your problems with Dave. I was just pointing out that Dave has both more experience and more credibility than you.

 

You wish

[kefka]

As i answer this, i have to question if its possible to fudge up the interpretation of what i said even more.

I replied to what you said; so sorry that you didn't like the answers.

My point was that Bioware are making games that are popular. That's all there is to it really. They don't need to make changes for a vocal minority.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

My point was that Bioware are making games that are popular. That's all there is to it really. They don't need to make changes for a vocal minority.

Quite so.

 

Off topic but perhaps interesting. They have altered the combat in Jade Empire so it plays kind of like a beatumup or for the closest comparative Shenmue.Jade is going to be interesting because it will be the acid test of whether or not Bioware owes its success to just getting lucky with licenses, or if they can stand on their own property.

[Volourn]

Then again, BIO has amde changes due to vocal minority so it wouldn't be the first time...

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I replied to what you said; so sorry that you didn't like the answers.

 

Yes, i apologize for not liking answers which barely have anything to do with what i said. I apologize for being so on-topic and asking a modicum of relevance in comments to what i post. What was i thinking, dammit? *tsk*

 

 

 

Er, no. I don't know if you're being daft by nature or by fun, but your "answers" barely qualify as such, given you're answering things i didn't asked. Nowhere in that post did i said, or posted anything that led you into asking me back what would happen regarding Bioware's decisions moving them away from a certain market layer (in fact, for someone who believes Bioware shouldn't be bothered with the harcore gamers, i really can't grasp the relevance of that question, or why you should pose it, even). I also didn't argued against their success, neither did i stated KoTOR was stale (unless you consider that stating something in the lines of "a company should improve their design choices and associated implementations so as to their products do not feel stagnant" somehow equals to claiming KoTOR is stagnant; but i'm sure you can see that, if that is your case, it's not my fault).

 

 

Unless of course answering with irrelevant things was the point of your answer, and therefore i apologize for expecting seriousness to be a part of it.

[kefka]

err, do I have to reply to all that above? Me thinks you're taking this just a bit too seriously.

[triCritical]

Your working for the Jedi your previous identity isnt important at the time.

 

What does this have to do with unnecessary mandatory dull combat?

 

In the context of the game everything is real. Malak is real and he has real goals and aspirations. He also has a large number of fanatical followers which he dispatches to stop your incursions into his "territory". His followers have one goal, to kill you they dont want to have tea and biscuits or go down the pub for a pint.

 

What does this have to do with unnecessary mandatory dull combat? Afterall Malaks assassins, or BG ripoff plot, only make up a very small percentage of the enccunters. And for the most part are some of the less mundane and redundant encounters.

 

So what does this have to with unnecessary mandatory dull combat?

 

If you cant understand that then why play roleplaying games?

 

Just about every PnP game I have every played was void of dull and unnecessary mandatory combat. Maybe you are just to daft to realize its a filler. Your are being worked by corporate Canada to make you think the game is longer then it really is.

 

Yes and I'm telling you that unless you can find a reason why it should be removed in the reality context of the world then your talking crap.

 

OMG you are so stupid, lets try this again. I DON'T WANT the combat removed, I just want an option to avoid the mandatory combat for characters who don't want to do it. Your probably going to accuse me wanting a pacifistic solution again aren't you.

 

:D :D :D :D

 

Your about as predictable as day and night.

 

Well you brought up your problems with Dave. I was just pointing out that Dave has both more experience and more credibility than you.

 

No I brought up a design philosophy of Dave's. Which debunked your argument that talkiness should be removed. However, you just twist facts around because you are a drama queen.

[Volourn]

LOL That guy who goes on, and on about Dave's 'deisgn philosphy" is accusing another of beinga drama queen. Espciailly when he repeats the same phrase over,a nd over again in the same post. Keep that up Tri, and you'll be as bad as me.

 

I do agree however that there was too much frivilous combat in KOTOR.

[triCritical]

I do agree however that there was too much frivilous combat in KOTOR.

And all I wanted to know was if Obsidian was going to ditch it?

 

Espciailly when he repeats the same phrase over,a nd over again in the same post. Keep that up Tri, and you'll be as bad as me. 

 

I don't make as many typo's.

[Volourn]

True. You'll always have a lack of typos to boost your ego.

 

Let's hope they do. Let's hope all developers do.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

What does this have to do with unnecessary mandatory dull combat?

 

 

What does this have to do with unnecessary mandatory dull combat?  Afterall Malaks assassins, or BG ripoff plot, only make up a very small percentage of the enccunters.  And for the most part are some of the less mundane and redundant encounters.

 

So what does this have to with unnecessary mandatory dull combat?

 

Just about every PnP game I have every played was void of dull and unnecessary mandatory combat.  Maybe you are just to daft to realize its a filler.  Your are being worked by corporate Canada to make you think the game is longer then it really is.

 

OMG you are so stupid, lets try this again.  I DON'T WANT the combat removed, I just want an option to avoid the mandatory combat for characters who don't want to do it.  Your probably going to accuse me wanting a pacifistic solution again aren't you.

 

:D  :D  :D  :D

 

Your about as predictable as day and night.

 

No I brought up a design philosophy of Dave's.  Which debunked your argument that talkiness should be removed.  However, you just twist facts around because you are a drama queen.

Well you asked the question. If you dont want answers dont ask the questions. Really not that hard you know.

 

See above

 

Well as long as they dont break the reality of the setting then its my character dealing with it not me. If the character feels brought down by having to hack his way through a bunch of Sith , well than thats the way the world works. Guess what when I was in school I wanted to avoid my homework too. That didnt make my homework go away.

 

Umm no your the stupid one that had nothing to do with combat and everything to do with why you should be able to play the game the way you want to play it rather than in a way which fits in with the rest of the world.

This is of course spefically relating to SW games as you seem unable to grasp even the most obvious things unless they are rammed in your face.

 

I never said talkiness should be removed. You really should get your facts straight.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

err, do I have to reply to all that above? Me thinks you're taking this just a bit too seriously.

No, you don't have to reply. You don't have to reply to anything i ask, neither do you have to comment on anything i say. I'd just appreciate it, if you feel like doing any of those, to at least keep a level head, and not to throw around assumptions that i'm taking it personaly, when in fact i'm only taking it on-topic (or trying to).

[kefka]

I think this is hardly about pleasing hardcore gamers; after all, they have improved their game design over the years, and their games are still financial successes, despite what 'hardcore' gamers tell them. Its only in their interest to improve and fine tune their game design; there's only so much a company can present in the form of stale gameplay or stagnant design choices over and over and over until it bites them hard.

Ok, that is what you said.

They (Bioware) have improved their game design over the years, but what if that is taking them further away from hardcore gamers? Maybe that's the reason for their financial success, not targeting the hardcore. Improvements are all fine and dandy but in what direction would they go? What if they prefer the console route - lots of action plus cinematics and cut-scenes? The "stale" gameplay you speak of is anything but stale to the people who enjoy it, or "stagnant design" when they bought KotOR by the truckload. If you think it is, maybe you're one of those "hardcore" gamers?

[triCritical]

[They (Bioware) have improved their game design over the years, but what if that is taking them further away from hardcore gamers? Maybe that's the reason for their financial success, not targeting the hardcore.

Hasn't Baldur's Gate sold the most copies over any other game they have made? That happens to be the only Bioware game I like too. Oh well...

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Ok, that is what you said.

They (Bioware) have improved their game design over the years, but what if that is taking them further away from hardcore gamers? Maybe that's the reason for their financial success, not targeting the hardcore.

 

Maybe. I'd speculate, but that is out of the scope of whats being talked about, as far as i'm concerned. However, its no big secret that their main target are not the hardcore gamers. That their game design isn't centered around, or based on, harcore gamers' concepts about gaming, isn't also any news.

 

Why you insist on asking me this after i initially said i believed this wasn't about pleasing hardcore fans also remains a mystery.

 

Improvements are all fine and dandy but in what direction would they go? What if they prefer the console route - lots of action plus cinematics and cut-scenes?

 

Thats their decision. I don't know where it would take them. But i honestly doubt they'd stop trying to improve their games, regardless of platform.

 

The "stale" gameplay you speak of is anything but stale to the people who enjoy it, or "stagnant design" when they bought KotOR by the truckload.

 

Good for them.

 

Though, try and do what i told you, remain on-topic. Tri's point was that certain things could be improved, and he gave the example of Taris as a good example of there being hope for Bioware to improve their gameplay in certain instances. You were the one that questioned a need for Bioware to improve, and i pointed out that they should keep improving, so as to not keep the same old formulas on all games (hence the stagnant remarks).

 

How this made it so i was saying KoTOR was stale must've taken quite a bit of effort on behalf of your hyperactive imagination.

 

If you think it is, maybe you're one of those "hardcore" gamers?

 

I don't know. I rarely label myself, specially when it comes to creating a label describing what kind of gamer i am simply by what i play or like. Even if i did thought it was stale, explain to me how that would make me hardcore - and something other than simply disagreeing with the masses, as you imply, please.

[kefka]

Hasn't Baldur's Gate sold the most copies over any other game they have made? That happens to be the only Bioware game I like too. Oh well...

I like Baldur's Gate too, but I love KotOR. In fact, other than Bioware's few attempts at an action game I've enjoyed almost every game they've made.

 

I think BG was a huge success because of the dearth of high quality RPGs. It's a great game but BG2 was better.

[Darque]

Well, Baldur's Gate was the first of a new breed of RPGs (though I think of it more of an evolution of SSI's Dark Sun games) so of course it would be "rough"

[triCritical]

I think BG was a huge success because of the dearth of high quality RPGs. It's a great game but BG2 was better.

Well since this is only getting worse since the time of BG, you said it yourself, maybe that explains Bio's success. In any case, it doesn't make much sense regardless to deviate from your most successful title.

 

Still adding choices and options in CRPG's is never bad design.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well since this is only getting worse since the time of BG, you said it yourself, maybe that explains Bio's success. In any case, it doesn't make much sense regardless to deviate from your most successful title.

 

Still adding choices and options in CRPG's is never bad design.

If you take into account the falloff in the PC market its pretty close as to which is the most succesful.

 

Options can go too far. like this little gem

 

"I just want an option to avoid the mandatory combat for characters who don't want to do it."

 

Perhaps a button on the startup screen that says view end movie? :D

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Perhaps a button on the startup screen that says view end movie?  :D

We're getting there (mostly because of developer decisions), but i think that wasn't his point.

[kefka]

Why you insist on asking me this after i initially said i believed this wasn't about pleasing hardcore fans also remains a mystery.

I don't insist on asking you anything. You started this whole discussion with your reply to my original post. I was just making a general comment.

 

Thats their decision. I don't know where it would take them. But i honestly doubt they'd stop trying to improve their games, regardless of platform.

Yeah, but what if you don't like those improvements?

 

Tri's point was that certain things could be improved, and he gave the example of Taris as a good example of there being hope for Bioware to improve their gameplay in certain instances.

You know, I guess this is where people are different. I thought Taris was boring as hell. Korriban was a much better example of what I liked. Horses for courses.

 

Even if i did thought it was stale, explain to me how that would make me hardcore - and something other than simply disagreeing with the masses, as you imply, please.

Well, it wouldn't make you hardcore but it would mean that you're in the minority, and that's almost the same thing when it comes to influencing Bioware. The "masses" continue to buy games that they like. If Bioware produces a clunker they'll stop buying. Simple as that.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You know, I guess this is where people are different. I thought Taris was boring as hell. Korriban was a much better example of what I liked. Horses for courses.

Koriban was amzing. Taris was very vanila though it was the only place that let you play the character class you chose at the start , so it has that in its favour.

 

Koriban as a Jedi(as opposed to a Sith) though It was just special.

[triCritical]

We're getting there (mostly because of developer decisions), but i think that wasn't his point.

It wasn't, but he's just a jerk-off. My point was always to remove pointless/redudant/frivolous filler, which serves no other purpose but to waste time. I think PS:T was even flawed in this respect since, they would have thugs attack YOU and nobody else for no specific reason. It was just stupid.

 

Like I said Taris was good. The use of droids, cameras and defense systems was great. If only that would have continued for the entire game, and not just the first 25% of it. The rest reminded me more of IWD, with more puzzles and dialogue. All levels very linear with pointless combat.