Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder

[Humodour]

What do people know of it?

[Walsingham]

No primary studies read

Drug treatment effective in socialising individuals without addressing underlying malady

Cognitive behavioural treatment more effective at addressing underlying malady

Not clear whether rise in diagnoses is misdiagnosis; it being easier to tell parents their son has ADHD than tell them their son is a selfish moron.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I know most people who have been diagnosed with it use it as the ultimate excuse to do whatever they like

[Walsingham]

I didn't mean to imply it's usually the case that the person who says they have ADHD is just a jerk. But it's like autism, now every nerd is autistic.

 

EDIT: Actually this got me thinking. In many ways isn't ADHD and autsim simply being a man? i do sometimes think we've feminised our society so much that if you are a man you are diagnosed as having an illness.

[Kaftan Barlast]

EDIT: Actually this got me thinking. In many ways isn't ADHD and autsim simply being a man? i do sometimes think we've feminised our society so much that if you are a man you are diagnosed as having an illness.

 

 

Its true to some extent. I know that women have been bothered with my lack of attention to my surroundings, but thats just because I walk around like a proper man with my head in the clouds, pondering scientific theories or why Spiderman married Mary Jane and not Felicia Hardy.

[Walsingham]

EDIT: Actually this got me thinking. In many ways isn't ADHD and autsim simply being a man? i do sometimes think we've feminised our society so much that if you are a man you are diagnosed as having an illness.

 

 

Its true to some extent. I know that women have been bothered with my lack of attention to my surroundings, but thats just because I walk around like a proper man with my head in the clouds, pondering scientific theories or why Spiderman married Mary Jane and not Felicia Hardy.

 

*puff puff*

 

Quite.

 

Now let us put on giant cowboy hats and ride tiny motorscooters to the beach.

[Tigranes]

I feel inadequate and emasculated.

[Dark_Raven]

Since these clowns don't want to give you a serious answer.

 

Link

 

Link

 

Link

[Tale]

ADHD according to the DSM IV-TR

 

Subtypes:

Attention-Deficit/Hyperacitivty Disorder, Combined Type

Attention-Deficit/Hyperacitivty Disorder, Predominantly Inattentive Type

Attention-Deficit/Hyperacitivty Disorder, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type

 

Prevalence:

Estimated at 3%-7% in school-age children.

 

Diagnostic criteria

 

A. Either (1) or (2)

(1) six (or more) of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

 

Inattention

(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities

(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities

© often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly

(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instruction)

(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities

(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)

(h) is easily distracted by extraneous stimuli

(i) is often forgetful in daily activities

 

(2) six (or more) of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have persisted for at least 6 months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

 

Hyperactivity

(a) often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat

(b) often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected

© often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)

(d) often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly

(e) is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor"

(f) often talks excessively

 

Impulsivity

(g) often blurts out answers before questions have been completed

(h) often has difficulty awaiting turn

(i) often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games)

 

B. Some hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment were present before age 7 years

 

C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home)

 

D. There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning

 

E. The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder).

[Tale]

The hardest part of diagnosing this comes from the fact that it has to be clearly impairing and it has to be inconsistent with their developmental level. A small child who behaves in a way that matches these criteria may not necessarily qualify. A lot of kids will behave in this manner. However if this is the only kid behaving this way out of 25 or so other kids his own age and he's having difficulties at home and at school, it may be worth it to look into for his sake.

 

Personal:

I am ADHD. I know that doesn't mean a lot to a lot of people. Reported over diagnoses of ADHD and the difficulty in observing it as maladaptive compared to other disorders such as Schizophrenia have caused many people to glance over it as a myth. However, when I miss my exit by 15 minutes before even realizing it, I notice it. When I have to read a paragraph of a textbook 5 times before I even recognize a sentence, I notice it. For me, It's like being extremely tired, but still having energy.

 

I fought to get off medication in elementary school. Hate drugs, always have, always will. Convinced my parents to take me off medication. Right off the bat I started getting Cs, Ds, and Fs. Could barely cut it for honors classes anymore. In college, I could only get a 2.8 or 2.9. Until one day I broke down and realized I needed help. Within two years only medicating when I really needed to, I got back to nearly 3.5. Without medicating I would go to class and not really know what's going on. I couldn't even take notes everything would just kind of zoom by me. Topic? Dunno. He's looking for questions? On what? Hell, for those years I would have had trouble telling you my name and age.

 

When I viewed the wikipedia.org article I found something interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-def...tivity_disorder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Adhdbrain.gif

PET scans of glucose metabolism in the brains of a normal adult (left) compared to an adult diagnosed with ADD (right).[27] "This PET scan was taken from Zametkin's landmark 1990 study, which found lower glucose metabolism, in the brains of patients with ADHD who had never taken medication. Scans were taken while patients were engaging in tasks requiring focused attention. The greatest deficits were found in the motor cortex and superior prefrontal cortex."

 

I need to read that study.

Edited January 1, 2008 by Tale

[Tale]

Also to note, people with ADHD don't necessarily have problems in all capacities. Problems are most profound in less stimulating tasks. Someone with ADHD may have severe problems with textbooks, but not with a video games or movies they enjoy. I imagine this is related to how we treat ADHD, using stimulants. I've found caffeine to be an occasionally good substitute for Adderall. Gives me interesting theories about the hyperactive component. Obtaining stimulation seems to be a theme.

 

What's your interest? I've got a DSM-IV TR as well as several textbooks that have the subject. I might even be able to look up some resources if you need me to. Though I doubt I could pull any journal articles anymore.

Edited January 1, 2008 by Tale

[Llyranor]

Nick has this, ask him!

[Humodour]

I also have it, Tale. I made this thread to see what popular thought on the subject was amongst a fairly educated crowd, and to see if anybody else here also has it. I've found that on internet message boards there is a higher incidence than one would expect given the percentage estimates of the general population with ADHD/ADD (average 5%).

 

I think perhaps one of the most interesting and anecdotally testable aspects of ADHD is that described here: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_caffei...o_an_ADHD_child

 

Essentially, for people with ADHD, some stimulants known to cause hyperactivity in "normal" people do the reverse on those with ADHD. I did not know caffeine was one, but I did always wonder why coffee and energy drinks made me calm and drowsy unlike with most people. The more interesting ones, perhaps, are medications prescribed to those with ADHD. I used to know somebody at school who would sell his tablets instead of taking them. Those who took them essentially became hyperactive, whilst for us they are depressants. Personally, Ritalin and dexamphetamine sulphate (a cousin of speed) made me very apathetic and nihilistic towards the world, which is the main reason I stopped taking them back in year 10.

 

Interestingly, my dad and my half-sister have it, and I firmly believe my sister has it, but she's got other mental illnesses, which would complicate any diagnosis - ADHD in girls is often under-diagnosed, as opposed to supposed over-diagnosis in boys. Anyway, point is it's highly heritable.

 

The most consistent feature of ADD/ADHD is a dopamine imbalance - a testable deviation for all those who would claim the disorder does not exist.

 

Another quirk of ADHD is the ability to "hyperfocus", which is actually a trait of the wider range of right-brain "disorders" such as the unrelated Autistic spectrum, where those with the disorders have an increased ability for intense focus. This might seem contrary to attention deficit, but the key is that it is only controllable so long as the topic/task in question remains interesting or immediately personally important, or at least that's what I've found. In general, those with Autistic disorders or ADHD/ADD, have a stronger right hemisphere than a left one. This isn't a bad thing, IMHO, since it gives us a different perspective on the world - a more holistic and creative one. I personally believe that it is the reason I can learn maths and programming so easily, as both require a holistic, creative vantage point.

Edited January 1, 2008 by Krezack

[Kaftan Barlast]

So, can you give us any examples of when you behave like morons and then pull the ADHD card to get away clear? :D

[Humodour]

So, can you give us any examples of when you behave like morons and then pull the ADHD card to get away clear? :D

 

Not really. Anybody who does that is an attention seeker. They exist in all walks of life, and to stereotype people with ADHD that way is annoyance I've come to live with. It's one of the reasons I don't tell people I have ADHD IRL.

[Calax]

I've got the inattentive type of add. It doesn't mix well with my Bipolar disorder, though it does allow me to work on autopilot at mcd's quite easily.

[Calax]

Also it should be pointed out that ADD people will gravitate to being either alcoholic, caffeine Addicts, or speed freaks as these three particular substances counter the ADD tenancies so people start to seek them out subconsciously because they like the taste so much.

[Dark_Raven]

Oh?

[Tale]

Also it should be pointed out that ADD people will gravitate to being either alcoholic, caffeine Addicts, or speed freaks as these three particular substances counter the ADD tenancies so people start to seek them out subconsciously because they like the taste so much.

Have you played X3? It's a good space sim.

[Humodour]

Also it should be pointed out that ADD people will gravitate to being either alcoholic, caffeine Addicts, or speed freaks as these three particular substances counter the ADD tenancies so people start to seek them out subconsciously because they like the taste so much.

 

That's a misguided stance.

 

'Speed' (medically known as amphetamines) is the primary drug used medically to control ADHD (Ritalin/Methylphenidate is the other one). Many studies have been performed which show that Ritalin and amphetamines do NOT in fact lead to substance abuse. Substance abuse has a slightly higher incidence in people with ADHD because of attempted self-medication but not for the reason you stated: it occurs for the same reasons as in 'normal' people; to counteract depression, to "just feel something", to try and forget about life, etc.

 

Though it is true that caffeine, speed and alcohol work differently for people with ADHD, speed is the only one which works as desired. Speed increases norepinephrine (noradrenalin) and dopamine uptake. Caffeine increases dopamine uptake, but also inhibits Adenosine (a calming molecule) and increases adrenalin uptake (an agression molecule). Alcohol IS known to increase dopamine uptake, but with everything else it does in the brain, it is a very poor choice for self-medication. Though 1 or 2 beers will sending me crashing to sleep pretty damn fast (with more waking me up again).

 

And what the heck re taste? Taste has absolutely nothing to do with addiction. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter linked with many addictions, but our brain chemistry is different because we have less dopamine uptake - so addiction isn't the same in us for substances which interfere with dopamine.

[Guest The Architect]

Don't they boost the tendencies, not counter them?

[tarna]

This thread is nothing but fascinating!

I was diagnosed as 'hyper-active' as a little tyke ( I was born 1962. ( rude remarks will get your ass kicked! :wink: ).). Medicated with Ritalin, I stopped taking it when I was about 12. Been in trouble most of my life and was a drug user from age 18 to about 25. I didn't stop for any moral reasons but rather because when I turned 21 liquor stores became a more reliable alternative than the stupid, stoned dealers that I had to work with. Was never a big fan of stimulants but preferred 'downers' like alcohol and Valium. Weed was always a favorite. Obviously, these were a means to cover a problem that I had but didn't realise at the time. Still have a severe problem with craving alcohol ( as the mods here well know! :wink: Good on them for not banning my sorry ass!! ).

Contantly require sensory stimulation and if it isn't there, I will 'stir up 'chit'' to make life more interesting This obviously makes life a problem for the wife. When I get angry and start reaching for materials ( be they electronic or chemical ), she gets very concerned about my actions. Some of the crap I build is defined by the BATF as 'Infernal Machinery' and unfortunately, I made the mistake at one time of explaining this to her ( idiot!!! ). Between having a bad temper when I feel slighted and having the 'hyper-focus' that Krez describes, there are some things/people that I should leave alone. Drinking helps. 'Cooking' up a batch of Hepititus or 'Dropping a building' are some of the stupid things I will consider when pissed. Alcohol moderates that although it is a piss-poor substitute for a proper mentality! I even checked out purchasing lithium hydride on one occassion. $500.00/kilo to those of you that know what that purchase would mean. I can refine metals BTW. Pipefitter by trade, I believe that nothing should be beyond my abilities to learn and I am at the top of my trade. However being ( and dying ) a drunken POS is probably better in the long run for some than the alternative. Consider Columbine and Virginia Tech.

 

My 'hyper-focus' on problems aids in my abilities as a trouble-shooter ( my company charges upwards of $105.00/hr for me to go to a site ) and I truely love what I do but if I don't have something to keep me interested I will create something ( stir the pot ) to create a situation. The Klan is a favorite target of my attention. Annoying co-workers are another.

 

I do not like what I am ( and could become ) but the alternative is far worse ( to become less than what I am ) but would not choose a course that would be less than what I am. To become a mindless, drug-controlled drone would cause me to put a gun in my mouth.

 

Better to seek drugs or alcohol?

What treatments are available to an adult that doesn't less the 'hyper-focus' that Krez mentioned? Without that, I am lessened as an person and I cannot accept that.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Tigranes
Oops, deleted the wrong one.

[Humodour]

That was an interesting read Tarna! Have you ever tried Adderall/Dex rather than Ritalin? I really hate Ritalin because it comes with all sorts of nasty side effects like depression, lack of appetite and nervous ticks - I also stopped it when I was 12, then switched to Dex. Dex is a much more stable drug, IMHO and more consistent in its effects.

[Calax]

I was just saying what I'd been told by my various psycologists/psychiatrists. Currently I take Medidate (which has some really nasty side effects in the wrong people, fortunatly I don't get those).

 

and for the record, Ritalin and other stimulants are basically legalized speed.

[tarna]

That was an interesting read Tarna! Have you ever tried Adderall/Dex rather than Ritalin? I really hate Ritalin because it comes with all sorts of nasty side effects like depression, lack of appetite and nervous ticks - I also stopped it when I was 12, then switched to Dex. Dex is a much more stable drug, IMHO and more consistent in its effects.

I've not taken any meds since I was 12. I WILL NOT accept any meds that degrade my intellect but will ask about those that you mention. I expect competance from myself for me as well as to my customers. My apprentices require my support/training. If I become less I cheat both of them and I may not do that. I am responsible to both of them. I have a lack of appetite already as well as a nervous tick so any controllable drug will do as long as it does not deminish what I am. You know me well enough to know that I will destroy myself than become what I despise.