thepixiesrock Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) ...yeah, too bad there weren't any laws to stop all those white people with their guns and cannons. Edited January 3, 2008 by thepixiesrock Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdangerOne billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) What I find ironic is how a man can condemn some people as criminals, while himself stating in other threads he would readily commit a crime if the opportunity showed itself. The irony stems because he doesn't actually care about the particular crime for the people he's condemning, he's condemning because they do a crime at all. Readily commit a crime? Name one. In your state of residence, it is against the law to shoot a trespasser unless you have absolutely no other choice in order to prevent physical harm. I'm not clear on what the crime would be called, but I'm thinking it's voluntary manslaughter. Edited January 3, 2008 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 In your state of residence, it is against the law to shoot a trespasser unless you have absolutely no other choice in order to prevent physical harm. I'm not clear on what the crime would be called, but I'm thinking it's voluntary manslaughter. You are wrong right there. There have been cases here in Iowa in which an intruder was in the process of breaking into a property and the resident opened fired first and that resident was charged with no crime. Nice try but no dice. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepixiesrock Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Those are exceptions to the law. He isn't wrong about it being illegal. Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdangerOne billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Those are exceptions to the law. He isn't wrong about it being illegal. You have the Iowa Law books right in front of you? Good for you! Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 In your state of residence, it is against the law to shoot a trespasser unless you have absolutely no other choice in order to prevent physical harm. I'm not clear on what the crime would be called, but I'm thinking it's voluntary manslaughter. You are wrong right there. There have been cases here in Iowa in which an intruder was in the process of breaking into a property and the resident opened fired first and that resident was charged with no crime. Nice try but no dice. That's funny! There have been cases in the United States in which someone crossed the border without a valid permit but was not charged with a crime! "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) I won't be able to convince you and you will not be able to convince me. This bickering is useless and solves nothing. We need solutions to the problem of illegal immigration in order to make it fair to those, regardless of country of origin and education, who wish to immigrate into this country but not give amnesty to those, regardless of why or how, who have broken our laws to live here. Edited January 3, 2008 by Sand Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) I won't be able to convince you and you will not be able to convince me. This bickering is useless and solves nothing. We need solutions to the problem of illegal immigration in order to make it fair to those, regardless of country of origin and education, who wish to immigrate into this country but not give amnesty to those, regardless of why or how, who have broken our laws to live here. Whether or not they've broken an immigration law is irrelevant to a person's right or priveledge of citizenship in a country where laws are meant to be challenged. And before you go into, yet again, that "laws should only be obeyed and if you have disagree with it you have other means to get it changed" I will reiterate that you've absolutely wrong and the way the United States legal system works is that the only way for someone who's not a politician to change the law is to challenge that law by breaking it going to court and seeing if a jury is willing to uphold that law. And even then, they can challenge it further in appeal. The system is built that way. Edited January 3, 2008 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) Whether or not they've broken an immigration law is irrelevant to a person's right or priveledge of citizenship in a country where laws are meant to be challenged. It is completely and totally relevant. If they are willing to break one law to come into this country illegally then they possibly will break other laws during their stay. Case in point, identity theft is common practice among illegal immigrants. And before you go into, yet again, that "laws should only be obeyed and if you have disagree with it you have other means to get it changed" I will reiterate that you've absolutely wrong and the way the United States legal system works is that the only way for someone who's not a politician to change the law is to challenge that law by breaking it going to court and seeing if a jury is willing to uphold that law. And even then, they can challenge it further in appeal. The system is built that way. We can petition our representatives in government to change the laws, and if those people do not then we can vote for those who will. Doing this with the courts is a waste of time and money when there are more direct methods, by pressuring politiicians who are in authority, to faciliate change. Courts can take years if not decades to make a final single decision. Edited January 3, 2008 by Sand Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) Whether or not they've broken an immigration law is irrelevant to a person's right or priveledge of citizenship in a country where laws are meant to be challenged. It is completely and totally relevant. If they are willing to break one law to come into this country illegally then they possibly will break other laws during their stay. Case in point, identity theft is common practice among illegal immigrants. Case in point, Iowa has no castle doctrine. Your willingness to break Iowa law means you're willing to break other laws. Funny thing about all this. I don't actually have to convince you that it's true for it to be true. For it to be a crime. For you to be willing to commit a crime. This sounds like a dilemma. And before you go into, yet again, that "laws should only be obeyed and if you have disagree with it you have other means to get it changed" I will reiterate that you've absolutely wrong and the way the United States legal system works is that the only way for someone who's not a politician to change the law is to challenge that law by breaking it going to court and seeing if a jury is willing to uphold that law. And even then, they can challenge it further in appeal. The system is built that way. They can petition their representatives in government to change the laws, and if those people do not then they can vote for those who will. Doing this with the courts is a waste of time and money when there are more direct methods, by pressuring politiicians who are in authority to faciliate change. Courts can take years if not decades to make a final single decision. Going through courts is the direct method. What you are suggesting is the absolute indirect method. Pressuring others, casting a single vote. Methods that often have little to no effect, especially in the modern structure. When appeals are often a direct challenge to the law. Well, appeals and lawsuits. But I think I recall a recent instance where it was said a law has to directly effect you to challenge it by lawsuit. Maybe you should try pressuring your representatives to resolve the previously stated dilemma. Edited January 3, 2008 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 I guess there is no way for either one of us to come to an agreement. Time to lock the thread I think. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samm Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Agh, why are you two fighting over these issues? You're both for solutions in the matter of the topic, are you not? Why not looking for those instead of insisting on differences? It's not that you're of a directly opposed opinion on the topic at hand, from what I've read in this thread, so please... Citizen of a country with a racist, hypocritical majority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Di Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Out of interest, how many of you anti immigrant types actually know any immigrants? Huh? "Anti-immigrant types"? Are you seriously lumping anyone who wants the border secured against illegals as anti-immigrant? There is a world of difference between being prejudiced against anyone who wasn't born in one's own country and simply wanting immigration laws enforced. Good lord, I know hundreds of people who have immigrated here, legally, and from just about every country on the planet. I even sponsored the citizenship of a Filipina woman whom I hired as an accountant when I was a finance director. I'm trying not to be overly sensitive here, but even vague implications that anyone who wants the borders secured is some kind of bigot chaps my hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) Agh, why are you two fighting over these issues? You're both for solutions in the matter of the topic, are you not? Why not looking for those instead of insisting on differences? It's not that you're of a directly opposed opinion on the topic at hand, from what I've read in this thread, so please... Have you actually read my opinion in the thread? I don't consider it so necessarilly a problem. My opinion is that the OP's presentation of the situation and proposed solution is irrational and would pose more problems than it solves. Edited January 3, 2008 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Okay then Tale, what do you propose to solve the issue of illegal immigration without giving amnesty? Don't say that it isn't a problem because it is a major problem in our soceity that needs to be solved. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Considering the complexity of the issue with regards to business, labor, minimum wage, taxation, and social services, a single knee jerk answer isn't going to do anything but cause problems. An approach needs to be researched by individuals competent to do so and implemented in a gradual fashion. And it would include the possibility of amnesty. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 I will be against amnesty because it would be no different than letting thief off the hook with his or her stolen property. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepixiesrock Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Hey guys, I'm sure if we all pull together we will come up with the end all perfect solution to illegal immigrants. Illegal immirgration is a serious problem in Hades' home town, and needs to be solved ASAP! Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdangerOne billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I will be against amnesty because it would be no different than letting thief off the hook with his or her stolen property. But you're all for letting manslaughterers off the hook for killing people! Where is the justice!? "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 It is a serious problem for the US, Pixie, and yes it is a particular problem in Iowa. Remember the Swift raids a few months ago? The Swift meatpacking plant in Marshaltown, Iowa was a wake up call for us Iowans. It is an serious issue that needs immediate attention and fixing. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krookie Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 The power is yours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 But you're all for letting manslaughterers off the hook for killing people! Where is the justice!? WTF? Where the hell do you get that idea, Tale? I am for people protecting themselves and their property, but people just going out on the street killing people?!?!? Where the hell did I ever said that! Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepixiesrock Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 It is a serious problem for the US, Pixie, and yes it is a particular problem in Iowa. Remember the Swift raids a few months ago? The Swift meatpacking plant in Marshaltown, Iowa was a wake up call for us Iowans. It is an serious issue that needs immediate attention and fixing. The joke was that the Obsidian forum community was capable of pulling together and come up with a solution. The joke was that you expect everyone to have a good enough grasp on the situation, or at least, everyone combined, to come up with some perfect solution. The joke here, is you. Lou Gutman, P.I.- It's like I'm not even trying anymore!http://theatomicdanger.iforumer.com/index....theatomicdangerOne billion b-balls dribbling simultaneously throughout the galaxy. One trillion b-balls being slam dunked through a hoop throughout the galaxy. I can feel every single b-ball that has ever existed at my fingertips. I can feel their collective knowledge channeling through my viens. Every jumpshot, every rebound and three-pointer, every layup, dunk, and free throw. I am there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 But you're all for letting manslaughterers off the hook for killing people! Where is the justice!? WTF? Where the hell do you get that idea, Tale? I am for people protecting themselves and their property, but people just going out on the street killing people?!?!? Where the hell did I ever said that! Killing someone trying to steal from your house is still killing someone. But, you're all for letting people off the hook for it. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Killing someone trying to steal from your house is still killing someone. But, you're all for letting people off the hook for it. And it is lawful to do that. Its not against the law here in Iowa. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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