Alien(s) is one of my favorite franchises and makes for great movies, as well as computer games where one gets to play as the predatory creatures themselves. I am wondering, however, if the franchise is suitable for CRPGs.

 

Despite the words 'roleplaying' a large part of CRPGs consists of combat and for that to be interesting, there needs to be a wide variety of enemies to fight against. The Alien(s) franchise has essentially one kind of creature with several types as the main enemy. Sure, some humans might also serve as enemies, possibly along with some robots to spice things up, but that does not seem enough. The problem would be somewhat lessened if the predators were also inserted into the mix, as they have been in some movies and games. I suppose other sorts of extraterrestrial creatures could be introduced as well. This could solve the problem, but unless done with utmost care, it could also dilute the feel of the franchise.

Why do you think you need a gazillion of enemy-types in a CRPG to succeed? Introducing new silly enemy-types in Star Trek/Wars fashion would be kinda disappointing. They better stick with the standard zoo (with some humans and androids in between), but use it more creatively. Josh will handle this, you'll see!

Why do you think you need a gazillion of enemy-types in a CRPG to succeed?

 

Because combat is a major component of CRPGs and people like to fight a variety of enemies.

 

Introducing new silly enemy-types in Star Trek/Wars fashion would be kinda disappointing.

 

At the very least it would likely serve to dilute the feel of the franchise. I suppose a couple of new enemy types would be feasible if they tie-in well into existing lore. For example, the dead unidentified extraterrestrial being that was found in the original Alien movie... that species could be introduced.

 

They better stick with the standard zoo (with some humans and androids in between), but use it more creatively. Josh will handle this, you'll see!

 

I hope you are right and they pull it off well.

Because combat is a major component of CRPGs and people like to fight a variety of enemies.

I'd like to see more variety in ability, more varied combat tactics and surprise element of on Alien rather than another abomination with different skin and same animation set/AI/tactics.

 

At the very least it would likely serve to dilute the feel of the franchise. I suppose a couple of new enemy types would be feasible if they tie-in well into existing lore. For example, the dead unidentified extraterrestrial being that was found in the original Alien movie... that species could be introduced.

Well, sure....if they do it right? I never felt Aliens could (should) be exploited like Star Wars, which can endlessly be extended with new alien races....they better be careful about this in Aliens.

 

I hope you are right and they pull it off well.

Neither idea is better or worse until we see how effective and creative they implement it.

Edited December 15, 200718 yr by Morgoth

At the very least it would likely serve to dilute the feel of the franchise. I suppose a couple of new enemy types would be feasible if they tie-in well into existing lore. For example, the dead unidentified extraterrestrial being that was found in the original Alien movie... that species could be introduced.

Well, sure....if they do it right? I never felt Aliens could (should) be exploited like Star Wars, which can endlessly be extended with new alien races....they better be careful about this in Aliens.

 

And that is really the question... can this be done effectively without diluting the feel of the Alien(s) franchise?

All the EU stuff I've had any contact with (rather limited apart from internet lurking) about Aliens is horribly lame

 

Also

 

Because combat is a major component of CRPGs and people like to fight a variety of enemies.

I'd like to see more variety in ability, more varied combat tactics and surprise element of on Alien rather than another abomination with different skin and same animation set/AI/tactics.

 

Is the way to go here.

All the EU stuff I've had any contact with (rather limited apart from internet lurking) about Aliens is horribly lame

 

I have not had any contact with the expanded universe for Alien(s). Can you enlighten me what was so bad about it?

Everything

Did they introduce any new extra-terrestrial creatures? If yes, did these dilute the feeling of the franchise as I predicted, or did the problems lie elsewhere?

Well, they messed up with Jockeys (alien you earlier referred to) pretty badly. Of course, what and what like they are and what's their relation to xenomorphs tend to differ from story to story. Stupidest ones have them as sort of an pink (!) evil telepathic master race that tries to conquer earth which is absolutely ridiculous, considering that in the original notes/whatever "Space Jockey" was ment to seem friendly in such an scary enviroment

 

But no, no additional races unless you count stupid crossovers about Predators and some sort of an different colored xenomorph factions

Edited December 15, 200718 yr by Xard

Well, they messed up with Jockeys (alien you earlier referred to) pretty badly.

 

I see. I did not realize these extraterrestrials have already been introduced.

 

Of course, what and what like they are and what's their relation to xenomorphs tend to differ from story to story.

 

That is pretty bad in and of itself.

 

Stupidest ones have them as sort of an pink (!) evil telepathic master race that tries to conquer earth

 

Ha, ha, ha, ha you cannot be serious! A pink telepathic master race! That is just too much to bear. I think this is a vindication of my fears that introducing new races/creatures could dilute the feel of the setting.

 

Thanks for posting that, by the way. I will not stop laughing for a while.

What is this "EU stuff" Xard is speaking of?

What is this "EU stuff" Xard is speaking of?

 

I conjectured that 'EU' stands for 'Expanded Universe': that means novels, games and other official parts of the franchise that do not, however, constitute the highest canon. At least that is what it means when applied to Star Wars.

Yeah, it means "Expanded Universe". Prolly best known EU-stuff comes from Star Wars. Everything related to SW that's not one of the movies belongs in EU

 

What's one of the worst trait of EU is that EVERYTHING is just as canonical and relevant. That means if there was cup with logo "Star Wars" and some one sentence short story in it that would be just as relevant and canonical as any game or book.

 

edit: "Space Jockeys" doesn't have official name. I guess that was what it was called in scripts and name came from that.

The stuff that Weyland-Utani (?) guy posted in his thread (and there was a lot of it) seemed consistent and generally intriguing.

Indeed, it did.

 

I remember asking him if it was all canon and he said he'd try to find out.

 

Not ALL EU is horrifying ****, but most of it is. There's no exception. If some miniature designer decided it would be cool if Space Jockey figures had mickey mouse ears and such product would be published, then Space Jockeys in EU would "eu canonically" have mickey mouse ears.

I was under the impression that there are several levels of canon in Star Wars and that only the films are the 'highest canon'.

There was a thread about this a while ago, back here.

 

It culminated in the idea of dogs that bark bees, a mental image that I for one could have lived without, but there you go...

 

Let's see if we can do better this time.

Not ALL EU is horrifying ****, but most of it is. There's no exception.

 

lolwut

 

There's C-canon (which contains all most of the EU-material), G-canon (Movies aka "teh canon") and N-canon (which include uncanonical Infinite-tales like that of robomaul etc.)

Not ALL EU is horrifying ****, but most of it is. There's no exception.

 

lolwut

 

There's C-canon (which contains all most of the EU-material), G-canon (Movies aka "teh canon") and N-canon (which include uncanonical Infinite-tales like that of robomaul etc.)

Let's not forget V-canon (which includes most Assault by Vagina excursions).

Well, they messed up with Jockeys (alien you earlier referred to) pretty badly. Of course, what and what like they are and what's their relation to xenomorphs tend to differ from story to story. Stupidest ones have them as sort of an pink (!) evil telepathic master race that tries to conquer earth which is absolutely ridiculous, considering that in the original notes/whatever "Space Jockey" was ment to seem friendly in such an scary enviroment

 

But no, no additional races unless you count stupid crossovers about Predators and some sort of an different colored xenomorph factions

 

Actually, during the director's commentary during one of the Derelict Spaceship scenes. He comments that he always saw the vessel as a 'bomber' seeding planets with the eggs. And yes, the Space Jockey has a fossilized trunk.

Well, they messed up with Jockeys (alien you earlier referred to) pretty badly. Of course, what and what like they are and what's their relation to xenomorphs tend to differ from story to story. Stupidest ones have them as sort of an pink (!) evil telepathic master race that tries to conquer earth which is absolutely ridiculous, considering that in the original notes/whatever "Space Jockey" was ment to seem friendly in such an scary enviroment

 

But no, no additional races unless you count stupid crossovers about Predators and some sort of an different colored xenomorph factions

 

Actually, during the director's commentary during one of the Derelict Spaceship scenes. He comments that he always saw the vessel as a 'bomber' seeding planets with the eggs. And yes, the Space Jockey has a fossilized trunk.

 

I don't get the trunk part

 

Yeah, that's what Ridley said. However, since the novelization of Alien is considered as canon and in it Ash "describes the Space Jockeys as a noble people and hopes that mankind will encounter them under more pleasant circumstances" as Wikipedia puts it.

 

"In an early script visualized but never written, the Pilot ship had crashed or landed on LV-426 some 10 million years prior to discovery by the Nostromo. It was depicted as having been dragged in some unknown manner to the top of a pyramidical structure, which was the top of an enormous subterranean temple containing the Xenomorph eggs. This is evident in the first Alien film, when Kane notices the hole torn in the bottom of the Pilot ship. It should also be noted that despite later rewrites and storylines, Giger and O'Bannon designed the Pilot so that it appeared to be a sympathetic and friendly lifeform."

 

( Personally I wasn't aware with novelization being canon and it causes some problems with Aliens, but, whatever...)

 

In my opinion since all "canon" information regardin Pilots/Jockeys is somewhat contradicting only right way to approach them is that we have next to nothing 100 % fact information about them.

Well, they messed up with Jockeys (alien you earlier referred to) pretty badly. Of course, what and what like they are and what's their relation to xenomorphs tend to differ from story to story. Stupidest ones have them as sort of an pink (!) evil telepathic master race that tries to conquer earth which is absolutely ridiculous, considering that in the original notes/whatever "Space Jockey" was ment to seem friendly in such an scary enviroment

 

But no, no additional races unless you count stupid crossovers about Predators and some sort of an different colored xenomorph factions

 

Actually, during the director's commentary during one of the Derelict Spaceship scenes. He comments that he always saw the vessel as a 'bomber' seeding planets with the eggs. And yes, the Space Jockey has a fossilized trunk.

 

I don't get the trunk part

 

Yeah, that's what Ridley said. However, since the novelization of Alien is considered as canon and in it Ash "describes the Space Jockeys as a noble people and hopes that mankind will encounter them under more pleasant circumstances" as Wikipedia puts it.

 

"In an early script visualized but never written, the Pilot ship had crashed or landed on LV-426 some 10 million years prior to discovery by the Nostromo. It was depicted as having been dragged in some unknown manner to the top of a pyramidical structure, which was the top of an enormous subterranean temple containing the Xenomorph eggs. This is evident in the first Alien film, when Kane notices the hole torn in the bottom of the Pilot ship. It should also be noted that despite later rewrites and storylines, Giger and O'Bannon designed the Pilot so that it appeared to be a sympathetic and friendly lifeform."

 

( Personally I wasn't aware with novelization being canon and it causes some problems with Aliens, but, whatever...)

 

In my opinion since all "canon" information regardin Pilots/Jockeys is somewhat contradicting only right way to approach them is that we have next to nothing 100 % fact information about them.

 

When you see the creature, it just appears to have had a trunk because of some kind of degenerated/fossilized thing on his chest. But every quote that calls the Space Jockey Noble and such, etc, say that they appeared to be friendly and noble. Appearing is a whole lot different from actually being friendly.

 

I, myself am confused too by what the original canon of Alien is. I mean. Doesn't the book state the Alien was transforming Brett and the other into eggs? (That screws Aliens over)

 

It's very interesting though because in the original draft as you've said there was the pyramid which means that the eggs must have been indigenous or perhaps even have been used by a previous race indigenous (or not) to the planet.

 

I think that Dan O'Bannon's original backstory stated that the Derelict landed their, spotted the eggs, loaded them up for an unknown reason and then chaos shook his rear. Jockeys had to abandon their ship but left a warning signal.

 

Didn't want to look like I was bitching or anything, just wanted to say that I can see where those malevolent Jockey stories came from.

Well, they messed up with Jockeys (alien you earlier referred to) pretty badly. Of course, what and what like they are and what's their relation to xenomorphs tend to differ from story to story. Stupidest ones have them as sort of an pink (!) evil telepathic master race that tries to conquer earth which is absolutely ridiculous, considering that in the original notes/whatever "Space Jockey" was ment to seem friendly in such an scary enviroment

 

But no, no additional races unless you count stupid crossovers about Predators and some sort of an different colored xenomorph factions

 

Actually, during the director's commentary during one of the Derelict Spaceship scenes. He comments that he always saw the vessel as a 'bomber' seeding planets with the eggs. And yes, the Space Jockey has a fossilized trunk.

Actually, during the director's commentary during an interview, he comments that he figured "it could have been" a bomber. He didn't seem attached to the idea, he was just presenting a possible explanation. Scott didn't write it and he doesn't claim to know the entirety of relationships within the universe.

 

Doesn't the book state the Alien was transforming Brett and the other into eggs? (That screws Aliens over)

 

It's very interesting though because in the original draft as you've said there was the pyramid which means that the eggs must have been indigenous or perhaps even have been used by a previous race indigenous (or not) to the planet.

 

I think that Dan O'Bannon's original backstory stated that the Derelict landed their, spotted the eggs, loaded them up for an unknown reason and then chaos shook his rear. Jockeys had to abandon their ship but left a warning signal.

That's all basically correct. I don't know if it's in the book, but this stuff was in the early scripts. And I contest Xard's claim that the novelization qualifies as "canon." There's no series auter for Aliens, the only "canon" is what you see explicitly in a film and what the other films take from that.

 

Even the extended editions and director's cuts are up in the air.

Edited December 17, 200718 yr by Tale

Just want to note that Xard poke at the aliens/predator cross-over and the alien versus alien EU stories were actually really good.

 

Dark Horse comic's Aliens Versus Predators was a great realization of how these two races would interact and how things would go if humanity happened to muck things up. It's a much more enjoyable story than the movie that came out a couple years ago.

 

The Aliens versus Aliens comic story, i believe was called Genocide, was a story about how as a species Aliens dealt with mutations. The inking of the comic made the two 'tribes' of aliens different colors so readers could differentiate them. The narrative follows a rich industrialist as he mounts an expedition to the alien homeworld in an attempt to collect samples of the queen's royal jelly (used to transform regular aliens into praetorian guard version). It's a fun read and stays well within established Aliens mythology.

 

If anything, the majority of the Dark Horse comics run of Aliens handled the mythos with more respect and staying within tradition than Aliens 3 or Resurrection did. Sure, they cast the space jockey's as malevolent bastards, but it was built off the concept of the derelict being a biological weapon bomber. I can accept that kind of direction shift a lot easier than Alien 3's idea that the aliens genetic structure changed based on the host organism (dog aliens....what the ****?) or Alien resurrection's human/alien/Michael Jordan hybrid and acid spitter aliens (if they could spit acid, then why did they have to tear apart one to escape the cells???)