Burma

[Walsingham]

I do not know what the news media are doing in other countries but in the UK the unrest in Burma has been covered in depth. My own analysis, from recent reportage, and peering across the border in the 1990s is that the junta are nothing more than a militarised form of organised crime. They are exploiting the entire country for their amusment and enrichment, with the collusion of unscrupulous foreign interests. Particularly in China, Thailand, India, and Australia.

 

Slave labour, forced prostitution of the rural population, brutalisation and oppression on higher levels for the urban classes. e.g.

 

 

 

I wondered what people thought of this, and also wanted to share the cyber-dissident's handbook. A tool I hope none of our members ever have to use.

 

 

 

 

http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=542

[Tale]

It's been getting CNN.com coverage lately. I'll be honest and say I'd never heard of the problems until this week.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I hope so much that something will come of this, but unless at least a portion of the military breaks ranks and refuses to enforce the crackdown, I don't see how the protests can be successful. Burma is one giant slave camp, and always a contender for Worst Place In The World To Be Born. There are unpleasant regimes all over the world, of course, but it's hard to think of anywhere where the government is so unpleasant and the opposition has so much legitimacy. Sadly, the world has failed to act:

 

The Burma Dirty List

[Krookie]

It's been getting CNN.com coverage lately. I'll be honest and say I'd never heard of the problems until this week.

 

Well I'll be honest and say I'd never heard of the problem until this minute.

[Walsingham]

Thanks for the list, Steve.

 

I scanned through and am relieved to say I have no interests in any of the companies besides Rolls Royce, and I will bring it up with them next chance I get.

 

My favourite:

 

Mekong Travel

Mekong Travel is a travel company based in Buckinghamshire which specialises in holidays to Indochina, including Burma. On their website they describe how decades of isolation as a result of military dictatorship

[Laozi]

Its sounds like a hotbed for capitalistic enterprizes

[Meshugger]

I just watched the BBC, and it seems like it is getter worse by the day. 9 dead today, probably more tomorrow.

 

Bloodless revolutions are rare.

[Gorgon]

This is crunchtime, either the demonstrations will lead to a critical mass, emboldening the demonstrators and paving the way for regime change, or it will peter out and there will be a random round of arrests and convctions.

[Walsingham]

i don't want to sound harsh, but nine dead isn't that many by any standards. Certainly not enough to provoke irreconcilable anger.

[Atreides]

It'll be interesting to see the impact on China. The comments I've read on this mentioned how China looks bad as the Junta's main backer (because they dig their energy reserves). Some have said China's pushing the Junta to keep violence down because people'd bitch at the Olympics about China's own problems and how they support dodgy governments.

[Walsingham]

Heh. Yes, I too was a little startled to hear that we are expecting China to pressurise Burma because they are a violently repressive dictatorship. I know hypocrisy is politics but sheezus.

[Gorgon]

Those nine are the official number, released by the junta. There are no reliable sources for casualties.

[Atreides]

Heh. Yes, I too was a little startled to hear that we are expecting China to pressurise Burma because they are a violently repressive dictatorship. I know hypocrisy is politics but sheezus.

China's got a "we don't tell you how to run things, we just have mutually profitable biz" kind of attitude. They're reaching into Africa, after energy resources and dealing with countries that the west has avoided. Darfur's another prominent example, but also in countries with questionable governments.

 

I think this is why China usually deflects pressure from these places. They're after their energy and I suspect they're happy if they're the only ones that'll be doing biz with them - more for the Chinese.

[Walsingham]

I agree. This is, sadly the inevitable upshot of our more ethical foreign policies over the last fifteen years. The Chinese are building a rapidly expanding sphere of influence with the people we have been excluding, and into the bargain making a mockery of efforts at peaceful sanctions and pressure.

[SilentScope001]

Heh. Yes, I too was a little startled to hear that we are expecting China to pressurise Burma because they are a violently repressive dictatorship. I know hypocrisy is politics but sheezus.

 

Well, China DID pressure them. Pubilcally, they called for peace in Mynmanr, for all factions to come to the negogiating table and that they expressed "concern" about the current crisis. That's the strongest stance they have taking on Mynmnar. Privately, it was due to Chinese pressure that the protests has lasted even this long, before the military snapped and attacked back (the military claimed that they were being provoked by the monks, who were attacked them first).

 

But China is worried mostly about instablity. Bascially, what would happen if the government of Mynmnar falls? You got insurgencies in the North after all. And experiments of democracy in third-world countries usually end in failure, corruption charges, and human right abuses. It is rumored that China would be okay if the government of Mynmanr gets replaced, but it would not like that, due to the instablity of a democracy and the fact that it would end up causing for their oil supply to be threatened.

 

(I did some research on Chinese positions becuase I am representing them in the Model UN this Saturday. Hopefully, they won't talk about Mynmanr though, it's a major embarrsment, and I think it's just going to cause deadlock.)

 

Also note that all of Mynmar's allies, even the offical newspaper of Mynmar itself, calls for democractic reform. The Mynmanr government is trying to draft a consitution for democracy. However, many of the democratic proponents call it a sham, and that it's only there to "legalize" the military control.

Edited September 28, 2007 by SilentScope001

[Tale]

The internet has been cut off from Burma today. Some pictures are still coming out, but through cell phones now.

 

The Mynmanr government is trying to draft a consitution for democracy.

 

Haven't they supposedly been doing this for 14 years with absolutely nothing to show for it?

Edited September 28, 2007 by Tale

[SteveThaiBinh]

Also note that all of Mynmar's allies, even the offical newspaper of Mynmar itself, calls for democractic reform.

One of the key ideas of democracy is that the person whose party wins the election gets to be in government. It's not as if they don't know where she lives...

[SilentScope001]

Haven't they supposedly been doing this for 14 years with absolutely nothing to show for it?

 

Just taking a long time, you know. The consitution, as it is, is very pro-military, so it will be rejected by western nations and the pro-democracy activists even if it was completed.

 

One of the key ideas of democracy is that the person whose party wins the election gets to be in government. It's not as if they don't know where she lives...

 

Mynmanr claims that the polls were basically fraud, and there were mass irregulatries. Hence, the polls be annulled.

 

A note: I guess I really don't want to either condmen or support Mynmanr. I don't like being motivated towards hate to any nation. It just feel wrong to me to scream and vent. So I'm just relating whatever is the offical Mynmanr position is, and you can just dismiss it or laugh at it however you so desire.

Edited September 28, 2007 by SilentScope001

[SteveThaiBinh]

I really do want to condemn the Burmese government, so on that point we must disagree. Please don't interpret my criticism as aimed at you - I appreciate the contribution you make to the thread by bringing the government's point of view for us to see. It only exposes them for the frauds they are. 14 years to draft a 'democratic' constitution? Laughable. And the only ones in this who are motivated by hate for the Burmese nation and people are their own illegitimate government.

[Walsingham]

Even Iraq managed a democratic constitution in three years, and that was while they were shooting at each other.

 

Note that the Burmese people can rest easy, since we cannot intervene lest someone point out their oil reserves. It's very naughty to help countries with natural resources.

[Tale]

Even Iraq managed a democratic constitution in three years, and that was while they were shooting at each other.

It took only 13 years between the start of the American Revolution and the ratification of the US Constitution. Note that the US Constitution wasn't even the first Constitution used.

[Gorgon]

Even Iraq managed a democratic constitution in three years, and that was while they were shooting at each other.

 

Note that the Burmese people can rest easy, since we cannot intervene lest someone point out their oil reserves. It's very naughty to help countries with natural resources.

Intervention sounds good, but it practically always seems to go wrong.

Edited September 28, 2007 by Gorgon

[Walsingham]

Even Iraq managed a democratic constitution in three years, and that was while they were shooting at each other.

 

Note that the Burmese people can rest easy, since we cannot intervene lest someone point out their oil reserves. It's very naughty to help countries with natural resources.

Intervention sounds good, but it practically always seems to go wrong.

 

In the early days of surgery and medicine the patient almost invariably ended up worse off. Would it have been wise to abandon the art completely?

[Gorgon]

I suppose that depends on whether you are the patient or not.

[Walsingham]

I suppose that depends on whether you are the patient or not.

 

And whether you are a patient now or then.