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I think it has more to do with nature. I grew up in Italy (where the idea of manual labour is anathema to us, if we can help it) and people like this behave no different.

Eh, I didn't mean to imply that these men are wont to enjoy manual labour - which I used used as catch-all-term for non-intellectual or artistic vocations, and perhaps I shouldn't have - only that it is traditionally expected of them. As is being able to provide a living for you and yours through sweat and steam - which as I've previously mentioned has (also) traditionally been the manly man's dominion - a surefire recipe for unhinged machismo. And that this is true for lower class African American males, which I believed was the background of most of the dog fight gamblers - um, in this case. Obviously, I think this is also true for most other, and pardon my bluntness, slightly or not so slightly backward cultures... i.e. where poverty, ignorance, religious fervor and, often, the uncertainty of making a living find themselves compounded to disheartening results.

 

Society isn't the root of all human evil, regardless of what the socialists like to believe.

Nuhuh!

 

And, yeah, and I don't exactly give a **** either, I just wanted to make one partially uncharacteristic post. My online persona is getting stale ;)

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I think it has more to do with nature. I grew up in Italy (where the idea of manual labour is anathema to us, if we can help it) and people like this behave no different.

Eh, I didn't mean to imply that these men are wont to enjoy manual labour - which I used used as catch-all-term for non-intellectual or artistic vocations, and perhaps I shouldn't have - only that it is traditionally expected of them. As is being able to provide a living for you and yours through sweat and steam - which as I've previously mentioned has (also) traditionally been the manly man's dominion - a surefire recipe for unhinged machismo. And that this is true for lower class African American males, which I believed was the background of most of the dog fight gamblers - um, in this case. Obviously, I think this is also true for most other, and pardon my bluntness, slightly or not so slightly backward cultures... i.e. where poverty, ignorance, religious fervor and, often, the uncertainty of making a living find themselves compounded to disheartening results.

 

Regarding African American males, i think it has more to do with their aptitude towards illicit activities then their blatant cultural machismo. When i moved in the US i had to work in construction for a few years and i met a couple of guys involved in stuff like that. One was a dog trainer for clandestine fighting, the other one was involved in 'tough man' fighting, which sometimes included a knife (just for cutting though, which to me sounded idiotic but i wasn't going to rebuke the guy in his face, for obvious reasons). They were both white, and they were anything but poor, since they both made about three grands a week.

 

I think it's just excessive testosterone, and in a completely emasculated society, where the masses have been brainwashed and zombiefied into placid submission, such individuals may appear both shocking and incomprehensible, like an odd relic of a distant, barbarous past, forgetting that it was only a few generations ago that we still had to carry side arms for self defense (and in some places we still do).

 

As for your implication that unhinged machismo used to be the dominion of manly men, i don't see how that has changed. I also consider intellectual or artistic vocations to be the dominion of males, as well, and in the latter respect African Americans achieved a spectacular level of sophistication before their culture felt victim of the general dumping down of western civilization. And that was back in the dark ages of poverty, ignorance and racism.

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They were both white, and they were anything but poor, since they both made about three grands a week.

Well, one could argue that background is more important than pay level.

 

As for your implication that unhinged machismo used to be the dominion of manly men, i don't see how that has changed.

That's not technically what I meant, rather than young men were - and still are - imbued through the described process with an exaggerated sense of manhood. Which is worryingly apparent in black street culture.

 

and in the latter respect African Americans achieved a spectacular level of sophistication before their culture felt victim of the general dumping down of western civilization. And that was back in the dark ages of poverty, ignorance and racism.

While I agree that African American culture peaked decades ago, I wonder if the average joe really was more culturally sophisticated or if a number of individuals sashayed through and left an indelible imprint on the arts. Iceberg Slim has always been more popular than James Baldwin. I also wonder if a distinction shouldn't be made between current lower class and middle class African American culture.

 

 

Whatevahs though, this is getting increasingly off-topic, and I and I is going to sleep.

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Am i the only one who just doesn't give a sh*t about all this?

 

I join you. Let us adjourn to the forum coffee shop, old bean.

"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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Dont forget to allow your dog to vent his special rage with this fine product http://www.vickdogchewtoy.com :devil:

DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself.

 

Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture.

 

"I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "

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Does your alabaster hood shimmer in the morning wind, Kaftan? Do you often force little children to repeat "sparkling wiggles" ad nauseam for your perverted enjoyment till their little mouths just can't take it anymore? Did you rave and whine when the law did OJ right and publicly admitted than not all blacks are murderers? Did you cry and revert to a fetal position upon seeing the face of Eminem? Bah!

 

I shall now compose a slam poem so as to vanquish inner-forum racism.

 

Voom! Voosh! Shoo!

The tar skin shivers uniquely

Obliquely.... See!

Sparkly,

Bubbly like Champagne

We shimmy in the dust like bogeys

Beatifically.

Spooked minds mind no regression

Retrograde forms of thinking despair

Eternally.

Like fyah!

We shall not abide by your phallic constructs.

We shall not abide by your outdated sects.

Laws, we lawfully decry

Like Mumia!

Free Mumia!

And my people too.

Their shackles have them buckled

Torn

Christ only knows

The pain

That crows befall

Chirping gravelly

Burying the bones of our fathers.

In Silence.

Through Silence.

The tar skin shivers quietly

Evermore, again born

It knows no comfort

It knows no love

Except the love of God.

Hovering buzzards traipse eternally.

As wolves are born

Of Wolves

And Men.

Revolution:

Red Venom Spews Forth

Salvation!

As serpents slither awkwardly

Their rotten skin the purest alabaster.

And dies does the master.

NOW

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Baley, you are most bizarre.

"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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Hey:

 

Black is Beautiful

Gorgeous Thriving Eternal

Black is Love

Black is Music

Black is Soul!

Peeping through the shutters of our minds

We besmirch creation with our ignorance

of true

radiant

living

perennial

Beauty.

Is Black

Like Black

Is Black.

I know why the caged bird signs!

As it sat on the throne drinking nectar with Allah!

Intrepidly linked.

Black is perfect!

Black is divine!

Black is ethereal!

Black is surreal!

Black cannot be comprehended except by its permission.

FACT.

TRUE.

LOVE.

POWER.

I open my throat to sing...

I mean,

I can fly!

Like a bird in the sky!

Eternally.

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People will whine about Vick; but they'lls till watch the games. That is all that matters. Vick will be back playing football in 3 years (he'll be 30 sos till capable) unless NFl goes overboard, and people will still watch him play. People forget, and forgive these things. One NFL GM (unnamed of coruse) has alreayd stated that Vick will likely get lots of offers from NFL teams hwne he comes. Though, he is (obviously) done with the Falcons.

 

I should point out though I don't approve of what Vick did. His actions - whatever the extent they are - are disgusting to me. He deserves to face whatever punishment he has coming.

I agree with Volourn. He'll get offers once he's available for the NFL.

 

Really Vick will do his time in Jail, and that's his punishment for supporting dog fighting at his home. It's a felony and he'll do jail time for it. But when he's released he should be able to work in whatever medium he desires. He should be knocked out of the NFL for a year, because he also represents the NFL. But after that he shouldn't be punished anymore.

 

I don't think the NFL should put a lifetime ban on him. btw, he won't be anywhere nearly as good as he was. He'll be old and at the end of the career. So even if they let him play, it's not like he'll make a huge impact like he previously did.

Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story.

- Steven Erikson

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