What would you think about...

[Tale]

Nearly all CRPG PC's are Marty Stues

I have ton wonder if it's intentional or just our pessimistic perceptions. Do CRPGs revolve around our characters because that's a mechanically sound design to have events unfold at the player's desired pace or is it because the developers want to fluff our egos?

 

Of course, it's not hard to avoid playing your character as a Mary Sue.

[SilentScope001]

I have ton wonder if it's intentional or just our pessimistic perceptions. Do CRPGs revolve around our characters because that's a mechanically sound design to have events unfold at the player's desired pace or is it because the developers want to fluff our egos?

 

It has to be predominatly "Fluff our ego". I want to rule the world. I want to have chicks. I want to win. Honestly, you can have a mechnically sound design to have events unfold at the player's desired pace, but have it not be Mary Sueish, by having all the events go against the Player and end up ruining the Player. You don't want the game to be "anti-Sue", but you do want the character to have real faults, to have some people really do hate him, and maybe even a half-baked victory scene, where in the end, you question if it is really victory. You can have the player have REAL weaknesses, that can never be fixed. In this hypotethical CRPG, the Player can basically activate "Switch A" to progress to the next part of the story that will continue to humble them forever.

 

But, we never see that being done by major CRPGs. The levelling system allows for powergamers and twinkers to ensure that you can be powerful at everything. And in KOTOR I and TSL, you do indeed get powerful, just due to the easiness of those two games. You have no real faults, in gameplay matters, and in negogiatons.

 

Fact is, game devs don't want to waste time creating such things, because then the players will be offended that their favorite character (their main character) suffers. Players play a game to have fun. Getting kicked and beaten the snot out of makes for good reading, but not for good gameplay. Ego-stroking works.

 

Of course, it's not hard to avoid playing your character as a Mary Sue.

 

True, but that all depends on the writing skills of the persons both playing the game and writing the game. I already written arguments against the dev's side, but on the player side, it's a bit hard to justify spending too much creativty being spent to make a brand new unique character that only YOU will be able to enjoy (since it is only you that play the game in a certain way). Better to indulge your fanasty by playing as a Mary Sue in video games, and when creating other forms of media, make characters that aren't Mary Sues at all. (Unless you are creating a 'serious video game', like say, "Peacemaker". Then you will need good writers to create serious, non-Mary Sue characters.)

Edited October 2, 2007 by SilentScope001

[Tale]

It requires no writing skills to play a game that way. It's not hard and doesn't require extensive creativity to just say "hey, this whole situation is getting weird, stop fluffing my ego you stupid NPCs. What's going on is just silly!"

 

The Mary Sue is not some incredibly difficult to navigate trap of the imagination. It's actually very easy to avoid.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Tale

[Guest The Architect]

Well, here's hoping the KotOR III PC isn't a Mary Sue. That doesn't mean I don't want them to not have a significant impact on the fate of the Galaxy, it just means I don't want other characters treating you like you will have a big say on the way things play out, like they're expecting you to. As Tale has basically said, it doesn't require rocket science to do this.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

*cough* Jolee keeps saying how you'll have to make a chocie that will change everything! OOOOooooooh! *cough*

[SilentScope001]

Might as well bump this up concering the fear of an MMO project...

 

How will the influx of hundreds of thousands of Player Characters will affect this? Roleplaying in MMORPG has some...ahem...bad characterstiscs that will likely bring about the Mary Sue phenomon and enhance it beyond Revan-like proportions. To back this up, I'm citing the Dadedalus Project, a project ran by a social scientist who who study MMORPGs for a living. Use this as an indication for the future of KOTOR MMO.

 

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001526.php

 

Read the comment section too, the academic nature of the conservation does help to shed more light onto the possiblity of roleplaying. Anyway, the bad roleplaying of OTHER people may end up ruining KOTOR MMO's storyline that Bioware is preparing.

 

Remember the Rule, 90% of all created content is junk.

Edited October 31, 2007 by SilentScope001

[Purgatorio]

But if Mary Sue/Revan didn't have the "Natural leadership" Carth might have shot her.

They did try to give her failings such as clumsiness; when helping the Twi'lek dancer on Taris, I found that embarrassing. Also general social ineptitude; "BUT THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE" when the Genoharadan bounty hunter changes shape... Stupid name Genoharadan it's like Raven Revan. "Are you hitting on me?" and various cornalogs of dork to Juhani, Carth, Bastila.... all of them really, and other characters not in the party. Reasonable responses for such dialog would be a slap in the face or mocking laughter. Revan only breaks from the Mary Sue archetype in TSL. It appears to me at least and I have been known too read to much into these things (Sadly) that she was not a natural leader at all; instead she had to manipulate the masses so her grand vision for the galaxy could be realized, which in the end failed causing her to.... sacrifice everything for the galaxy once.... crap more. Never mind that... um.

Archetypes in fiction stem from the oldest traditions, from Gilgamesh to.... Harry Potter. Why would a game where you control the main character an all conquering hero be any different?

I really want a main character that is a drooling moron who reacts badly to situations gets called a loser and is left behind.... Not one like Revan, that says it all so I don't have to give examples... more examples.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Purgatorio

[Bass-GameMaster]

The Lightsaber was a tool of the force for one. But few Force Users could simply just "kill" someone instantly they would have to bend and manipulate the force for certain uses. Being that no one was ever powerfull to attack someone with out a lightsaber, or just rather unheard of.