Kaftan Barlast Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 I only have one question. Why does Guard Dog hate America? :'( Because you smell? DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
taks Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 which are? taks Modern: Microsoft Historically: Carnegie Steel and they did what that was bad for consumers? MS got slapped down for actually breaking the law, btw, and like it or not, they offer the best product in the world (and they never had a monopoly anyway), and carnegie actually offered low prices on steel. that was why they got so big in the first place... the world was buying. kudos to the mention of AT&T. that would have been easy to pounce on. taks comrade taks... just because.
Tale Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 which are? taks Modern: Microsoft Historically: Carnegie Steel and they did what that was bad for consumers? MS got slapped down for actually breaking the law, btw, and like it or not, they offer the best product in the world (and they never had a monopoly anyway), and carnegie actually offered low prices on steel. that was why they got so big in the first place... the world was buying. kudos to the mention of AT&T. that would have been easy to pounce on. taks All of this is beside my point. My point is whether or not competition exists. Whether or not what Microsoft does is offer "the best product in the world" and are doing what is best for the consumer is beyond either you or I to accurately analyze. However, it is difficult to contest that the OS market lacks genuine competition. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
taks Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 In addition, does nobody take into account a countries population? The cost for socializing medicine in the US (300M+ people) would be staggering. i've mentioned this before, and was waiting to see if anyone else would pick it up... a country with 300 M people and a $1T trade deficit hardly compares to 20 M people with a $90 B trade surplus. apples and oranges. even the apples of scandinavia are backing off and attempting to reduce benefits. larger countries do not fare as well, and people rarely want to mention all those that are failing miserably at their attempts. i'm curious btw, who ranked US health care at "37th, right above cuba?" taks comrade taks... just because.
Tale Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) i'm curious btw, who ranked US health care at "37th, right above cuba?" taks World Health Organization? I believe Cuba is 39. Don't quote me, though. not taks Edited June 28, 2007 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
taks Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 All of this is beside my point. My point is whether or not competition exists. neither were monopolies, though both are often accused. MS had maybe 85% at its peak, and competition from linux grew up on its own, without any help from johnny law. mac and unix have always been around. However, it is difficult to contest that the OS market lacks genuine competition. it is very easy to contest that. linux and mac are both genuine, and MS is really, really, really afraid of linux. taks comrade taks... just because.
taks Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 World Health Organization? ah, yes, the UN. certainly the least biased source for evaluating anything the US does. btw, i had a guess this was the case anyway. I believe Cuba is 39. Don't quote me, though. fittingly, as i noted before, cuba is moore's example. that the WHO can rank the US only two places above cuba is telling indeed. i guess 37th place is the place where people naturally flock to get their health care from out of the country, and their real degrees... taks comrade taks... just because.
Tale Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 However, it is difficult to contest that the OS market lacks genuine competition. it is very easy to contest that. linux and mac are both genuine, and MS is really, really, really afraid of linux. taks When it comes to home computing, Linux practically does not exist. When it comes to gaming, both Linux and Mac do not exist. Not in the literal sense, but it might as well be. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Sand Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 In any case, as it was pointed out, Guard Dog said unfettered capitalism that means repealing the Sherman Act which would make matters even worse than they are now. What we need is a complete and total restructuring, not only of medical care but of our government as well. Medical care needs to be a secured right to every citizen in this country and not just for those who have money and insurance. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Guard Dog Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 which are? taks Modern: Microsoft Historically: Carnegie Steel and they did what that was bad for consumers? MS got slapped down for actually breaking the law, btw, and like it or not, they offer the best product in the world (and they never had a monopoly anyway), and carnegie actually offered low prices on steel. that was why they got so big in the first place... the world was buying. kudos to the mention of AT&T. that would have been easy to pounce on. taks IIRC Carnagie Steel ran afoul of the government because it owned the iron mines, the train transports, the steel mills, and the ships for export. When you control a product from raw material to finished product that is a monopoly by the definition. @Tale, if you can draw that conclusion from ANYTHING I've ever posted here, you need to do some re-reading because you are way off. I am very mistrustful of the federal government because since the days of FDR is has grown by leaps and bounds and has usurped far more authority and power than the constitution allows. And apparently no one has been inclined to stop it, and only a few have even managed to slow it. And if you are still ticked at me, well jeez, I already apologized. You were right, i was wrong. What, do you want me to write you a check or something? "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Tale Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 @Tale, if you can draw that conclusion from ANYTHING I've ever posted here, you need to do some re-reading because you are way off. I am very mistrustful of the federal government because since the days of FDR is has grown by leaps and bounds and has usurped far more authority and power than the constitution allows. And apparently no one has been inclined to stop it, and only a few have even managed to slow it. And if you are still ticked at me, well jeez, I already apologized. You were right, i was wrong. What, do you want me to write you a check or something? You got trolled, BURN! I wouldn't mind the check though. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Sand Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Well, I think it is time to throw out the old constitution and start over from scratch. Make a more lean government but fulfill the need that the government should take care of its people and their well being. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
taks Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 oh, keep in mind, i'm no fan of MS, but they're hardly an example of "unfettered capitalism." their early practices were illegal, and they got busted, rightly IMO. taks comrade taks... just because.
Guard Dog Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Well, I think it is time to throw out the old constitution and start over from scratch. Make a more lean government but fulfill the need that the government should take care of its people and their well being. The funny thing is, you don't even realize that the two things you want are so contraditory that cannot coexist. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
taks Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Make a more lean government but fulfill the need that the government should take care of its people and their well being. lean gov't is fine, but taking care of its people and their well being means trodding on the same people's rights (not to mention the fact that a lean government is contrary to the nanny-state idea of paying for its people, health care or otherwise). robbing peter to pay paul certainly qualifies as a rights violation. edit: we're kinda saying the same thing, GD. taks Edited June 28, 2007 by taks comrade taks... just because.
theslug Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Well, I think it is time to throw out the old constitution and start over from scratch. Make a more lean government but fulfill the need that the government should take care of its people and their well being. I know im crazy but you need a mental evaluation. There was a time when I questioned the ability for the schizoid to ever experience genuine happiness, at the very least for a prolonged segment of time. I am no closer to finding the answer, however, it has become apparent that contentment is certainly a realizable goal. I find these results to be adequate, if not pleasing. Unfortunately, connection is another subject entirely. When one has sufficiently examined the mind and their emotional constructs, connection can be easily imitated. More data must be gleaned and further collated before a sufficient judgment can be reached.
taks Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 IIRC Carnagie Steel ran afoul of the government because it owned the iron mines, the train transports, the steel mills, and the ships for export. When you control a product from raw material to finished product that is a monopoly by the definition. no, a monopoly requires that you own the whole market, too, by definition. there's a word for what you're describing, but it escapes me at the moment. MS and carnegie are better described as oligopolies, i.e. a few competitors for the market only. i was just reading that MS actually peaked around 90%, but they got there illegally. taks comrade taks... just because.
Meshugger Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 oh, keep in mind, i'm no fan of MS, but they're hardly an example of "unfettered capitalism." their early practices were illegal, and they got busted, rightly IMO. taks Which they did in.....Europe, but they haven't been eager to pay 1.2 Billion dollars in fines "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
taks Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 i haven't figured out what they actually did in europe that was not covered by the US justice department ruling already. taks comrade taks... just because.
Meshugger Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Oh, and i fully understand why a nation with 300 million immigrants from all over the world have trouble with the whole idea of UHC (Solidarity isn't high up on the list), but surely there's a way to improve the way things are right now, right? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Meshugger Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 i haven't figured out what they actually did in europe that was not covered by the US justice department ruling already. taks I think that Gromnir can answer that question better than any of us "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Sand Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Well, I think it is time to throw out the old constitution and start over from scratch. Make a more lean government but fulfill the need that the government should take care of its people and their well being. The funny thing is, you don't even realize that the two things you want are so contraditory that cannot coexist. Right. Whatever. The point being what we have now does not work. The capitalism model simply does not work. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Guard Dog Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 The point being what we have now does not work. The capitalism model simply does not work. It works very well when we are talking about veterinary maedicine. it is so inconcievable it will work with human health care? "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
taks Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 The point being what we have now does not work. The capitalism model simply does not work. again, this is NOT a capitalism model at work, not even close. health care, and the insurance industry, is probably the most heavily regulated in the US. consumers cannot even sue the very insurance companies representing them. your logic is baffling on this one... on one hand, you're faulting a system heavily corrupted by the government, and on the other, you're advocating more government interference. if the government got out of the way, standard capitalistic models of competition would take over and things would naturally improve - and the insurance companies, and health care systems, that weren't operating properly/efficiently would bankrupt themselves. taks comrade taks... just because.
taks Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 It works very well when we are talking about veterinary maedicine. not surprisingly, this is a system that's not really regulated by the government. at least, not to the level of human health care. certainly _some_ limits/laws need to be in place, but it's gotten out of hand. medicare/medicaid doesn't help, either, since the government forces doctors/pharmaceuticals to sell their services/goods at bargain prices (not much different than a socialist country forcing a pharmaceutical company to sell drugs for pennies over manufacturing costs, rather than what the drugs are really worth). the average consumer has to pick up the remaining tab for losses in other sectors. taks comrade taks... just because.
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