WORST character models ever...

[Sand]

No it isn't. The inspiration for Dungeons and Dragons come from many fantasy venues and sources that aren't Tolkien. The most obvious of that is the Dungeons and Dragons' magic system. If you actually pay attention and read through the books you would catch many other aspects that aren't Tolkien. Of course you won't recognize that fact because you are so adamant that elves have to be humans with pointed ears it is just sickening.

Edited March 23, 2007 by Sand

[Dark_Raven]

The best artist The Forgotten Realms has ever known.

[Pidesco]

So that's the guy who was responsible for all the really atrocious fantasy art from the 80s.

[Dark_Raven]

Edited March 24, 2007 by Dark_Raven

[Pidesco]

I just remembered how hard it was to find decent portraits for infinity engine games because portrait sites were filled to the brim with crap like that.

[GreasyDogMeat]

Whether or not the elves are true to their source, (The more true to the source the better IMHO so kudos there), most of the models in this game are very disapointing. As the original poster mentioned, there is a playdough look to all the characters, more so than any game I've played that has had complaints of 'doughy' or 'plastic' looks to characters. I think people are getting side tracked from the main issue of the poor models with the elves specifically. The elves are just more noticable because they don't necesarrily conform to the 'cute elf' stereotype. The real problem is all of the models are disapointing.

 

My biggest problem with NWN 2 is that visually, it looks behind the times yet it is a very demanding game on your system. I can live with older or poor graphics, hell I still play SSI classics, but I can't stand a game that both looks dated yet strains my system as if it were a massive graphical next gen DX10 powerhouse. I can get a fairly decent frame rate out of NWN 2 by turning many features off but it is a bit ridiculous. Even with most settings off certain areas like Port Llast run very poorly with all the npcs going about their business. It is just disapointing that too many characters on screen that don't even look that good can hurt the performance so much.

[Sand]

I don't see how they are disappointing. They look pretty good for a CRPG. Graphically, I prefer NWN2 over Jade Empire. Graphic intensive games, such as Oblivion, only have the graphics to sell it. Beyond that that game and games within the FPS genre, generally, have no substance to them. So, they better have kickarse graphics because everything else about the game sucks. Also I don't have any real problems with performance. I average 20 to 30 frames per second in nearly all areas and I don't dip below 15. I hardly have a DX10 powerhouse computer.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I don't see how they are disappointing. They look pretty good for a CRPG. Graphically, I prefer NWN2 over Jade Empire. Graphic intensive games, such as Oblivion, only have the graphics to sell it. Beyond that that game and games within the FPS genre, generally, have no substance to them. So, they better have kickarse graphics because everything else about the game sucks. Also I don't have any real problems with performance. I average 20 to 30 frames per second in nearly all areas and I don't dip below 15. I hardly have a DX10 powerhouse computer.

 

Tthe problem with fluctuations between 20-30fps, is the eye actually notices the stutter more due to the fact humans process images at around 25fps I believe, the monitor is most likely refreshing at 60 or 75 fps.

 

While it won't stop a person from playing the game, it certainly became annoying for myself. It impacted my ability to enjoy the game due to noticeable stutters in animation.

 

I still think it's fairly depressing, that it runs like such a pig.

 

I don't claim to know why systems are strained so much running NWN2, for me it certainly hasn't ever seemed to be down to the effects, afterall enabling and disabling them has never really altered the framerate so much, NWN2 has some cool stuff going off in there technically, but I get this horrible feeling that somewhere a major blunder was made that caused a huge bottleneck. I still wonder what is causing it, but due to the fact I don't know the underlaying engine specifics to the letter I couldn't even hazard a guess.

 

I have heard talk of the rules being a major burden, but that seems like lunacy, even with a complex system if built correctly it shouldn't even effect much at all.

 

It could be something to do with scene ordering but that also seems unlikely, nor am I one who believes that calculating lighting vectors is where the performance hit comes from.

Edited March 24, 2007 by @\NightandtheShape/@

[Sand]

Doesn't bother me any then again graphics are the last thing I consider in a game.

Edited March 24, 2007 by Sand

[Tale]

Tthe problem with fluctuations between 20-30fps, is the eye actually notices the stutter more due to the fact humans process images at around 25fps I believe, the monitor is most likely refreshing at 60 or 75 fps.

Humans process images much much faster than 25 FPS. Only reason movies can get away with 25-30 is because of motion blur.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Doesn't bother me any then again graphics are the last thing I consider in a game.

 

It wasn't the graphics, but the impact on the animations that bothered me, that while not essencial does get annoying after an hours a stuttering disjointed animated models.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Tthe problem with fluctuations between 20-30fps, is the eye actually notices the stutter more due to the fact humans process images at around 25fps I believe, the monitor is most likely refreshing at 60 or 75 fps.

Humans process images much much faster than 25 FPS. Only reason movies can get away with 25-30 is because of motion blur.

 

I don't know for certain, all I do know is that when the game refreshes slower than both the monitor and the eye. Your going to notice, and it will impact the game.

[Sand]

Doesn't impact the game where I am sitting.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I don't see how they are disappointing. They look pretty good for a CRPG. Graphically, I prefer NWN2 over Jade Empire. Graphic intensive games, such as Oblivion, only have the graphics to sell it. Beyond that that game and games within the FPS genre, generally, have no substance to them. So, they better have kickarse graphics because everything else about the game sucks. Also I don't have any real problems with performance. I average 20 to 30 frames per second in nearly all areas and I don't dip below 15. I hardly have a DX10 powerhouse computer.

 

I really don't have a problem with the graphics, its that the graphics vs. performance is way off. Graphically I think Jade Empire and even KoTOR to some extent are superior in looks AND they also perform 100x better. I'd frankly be happier if NWN looked even uglier than it did now if it ran more smoothly. It is just hard to make compromises and deactivate so many features in NWN 2 when it just doesn't look THAT good compared with many other games on the market that have just as many things running in the background (tracking stats, npc interactions and all that extra jazz) and character models much more detailed yet running at frame rates much higher and smoother.

 

I really enjoy NWN 2 as a game, I wouldn't be making a module for it if I didn't, I just feel that the one area that this game needs the biggest help in is it's performance. I am very grateful and happy for the enhancements in the 1.03 patch and I REALLY hope Obsidian keeps working on optimizing the game as much as possible.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Doesn't impact the game where I am sitting.

 

Good for you Sand.

[Xard]

I just remembered how hard it was to find decent portraits for infinity engine games because portrait sites were filled to the brim with crap like that.

 

So true. I never found decent one :sad:

[Xard]

But yeah, NWN2's biggest downfall is HORRIBLE performance when comparing it to eye candy it gives.

 

Otherwise NWN2 is very good game (I like simplistic battle animations when talking about animations ) but performance really is killer for me.

 

I was very happy when Sawyer told about their FPS goals for Aliens game

[Sand]

I haven't had any real performance issues since 1.03.

[Walsingham]

I'd just like to throw in the fact that as far as I'm concerned Elves may be as shiny as you want, but they'll always be stuck up bastards. Hence I find them repugnant.

[Xard]

I haven't had any real performance issues since 1.03.

I've had serious performance issues AFTER 1.03 came out. Game wasn't smoothest running ever even before (but still good enough that it didn't hurt my gaming experience) but after 1.03... *sigh*

[Azarkon]

I found the NWN 2 models decent, but then I played male

 

The performance issues and the bugs, on the other hand, really hurt the game, but this thread isn't about that.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that the developers do know how to make "pretty" models - see Elanee & Neeshka, for example, but I also think their adherence to the D&D 3.5 "look" hampered their ability to do the same for PCs. I do want to say, however, that if WoTC is giving people flak about adapting their art style into the digital medium, then they need to be given a reality check. Success in computer games is not the same as success in rulebooks. A PnP player might glance at the rulebook art for elves, sniff at them, and continue imagining elves as he always had. A computer gamer, on the other hand, has to stare at the player models nearly every second he spends in the game - he cannot simply ignore them, especially not in a cutscene-heavy game like NWN 2. Consequently, an equivalence cannot be formed between the two; Obsidian does, in part, have to compromise with an industry accustomed to beautiful graphics.

 

As an aside... Few have ever complained about ugly character models in games like Guild Wars or the multitude of anime-inspired Asian RPGs, yet I see an endless stream of criticism directed against Everquest 2, Vanguard, NWN 2, etc. I do believe that this is saying something about the art style gamers prefer.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Plus the worst character models ever aware really should go to morrowind.

[Tale]

I liked Morrowind's models. I would give worst character models ever more towards the Bioware Neverwinter Nights. Leather armor that looks more like a pimp's bathing suit?

[Pidesco]

Morrowind's models were bad, but the animations were what annoyed me the most.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I liked Morrowind's models. I would give worst character models ever more towards the Bioware Neverwinter Nights. Leather armor that looks more like a pimp's bathing suit?

 

NWN's characters look like plastic game pieces, where Morrowind suffered from ugly, poorly animated blah, even at the time they were awful.