I don't get Christianity because.

[alanschu]

Sure. Fire away.

[deganawida]

Um, Darth Moth, Parthenogenesis is a form of conception.

 

Cannot bring forth a male child, though. No Y chromosome.

[alanschu]

Ooooo, ZING!

[Gfted1]

Um, Darth Moth, Parthenogenesis is a form of conception.

 

Cannot bring forth a male child, though. No Y chromosome.

 

 

Incorrect.

[alanschu]

Ahah, touche!

 

 

EDIT: Wait a minute. Are you sure?

Edited February 1, 2007 by alanschu

[Gfted1]

Ahah, touche!

 

 

EDIT: Wait a minute. Are you sure?

 

 

This statement seems to contradict deganawida's:

 

The offspring of parthenogenesis will be all female if two like chromosomes determine the female sex (such as systems where XX is female and XY is male), but male if the female sex is determined by unlike chromosomes (such as systems where WZ is female and ZZ is male), because the process involves the inheritance and subsequent duplication of only a single sex chromosome. The offspring may be capable of sexual reproduction, if this mode exists in the species.

[alanschu]

Yeeees, and since females are WZ, they can create either WW or ZZ.

 

Since Human females are XX, they'd be able to create XX or... XX.

 

 

In fact, look at what you posted!!!

 

 

The offspring of parthenogenesis will be all female if two like chromosomes determine the female sex (such as systems where XX is female and XY is male), but male if the female sex is determined by unlike chromosomes (such as systems where WZ is female and ZZ is male), because the process involves the inheritance and subsequent duplication of only a single sex chromosome. The offspring may be capable of sexual reproduction, if this mode exists in the species.

 

 

Your quote fully supports degawinda's statement.

Edited February 1, 2007 by alanschu

[Sand]

OMG! JESUS WAS A GURL?!?!?!?

 

 

AAAAAARRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH! My brain hurts to much to have a serious argument. I think I need a caffeine infusion.

[WITHTEETH]

I don't understand atheism, because it is confusing.

 

How can you believe that when you die, you sieze to exit? Entirely, no afterlife, no consciousness, no anything. Thinking of death must leave you with a really hollow feeling.

Atheism is one idea that is put forward, [a=no] + [theism=God] no god. Thats all its saying. maybe your confusion is what to believe next, what is your purpose, and what is the reasoning for the perceivable world around you. As an atheist you can come to this conclusion yourself, there is no absolute right or wrong answer only different levels of understanding.

 

One book can't give you all your answers.

 

Death, do you remember what it was like before you were born? That is death in a sense, it doesn't concern us because our sense inputs seize to work. Our consciousness withers and becomes dead. Theres no pain, suffering, anxiety. just tranquility, there is no hell, just the Cosmos.

 

... Did you fear birth?

[Gorgon]

"

No it's not. Because your statement is simply incorrect. Faith is belief without proof. It's not believing in something despite it being incorrect."

 

It's not just believing without proof, it's believing the fantastic and the 'impossible' without proof.

 

 

 

 

"Faith must trample under foot all reason sense and understanding"

 

~ Martin Luther.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Gorgon

[alanschu]

"Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. "

 

http://www.answers.com/topic/faith

 

 

Taking the quote from some some guy named Martin Luter (whoever he is) is an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy.

[Sand]

Are you saying that the existence of God is impossible, Gorgon?

 

I have to disagree with that.

 

Martin Luther: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

Edited February 1, 2007 by Sand

[Gorgon]

Not knowing who Martin Luther is is not exactly inspiring of confidence.

 

Also, whats with the posting of dictionary/wiki definitions as if they were arguments in themselves.

[Gorgon]

"Are you saying that the existence of God is impossible, Gorgon?

 

I have to disagree with that"

 

No I don't argue that the existance of god is impossible, rather that god is outside the realm of logic and imperical thought.

[Sand]

Martin Luther is one of the greatest Christian theologians.

[WITHTEETH]

Martin Luther is one of the greatest Christian theologians.

Martin Luther started the break from the catholic church. The Guy who nailed a list of what he deemed wrong with the catholic church on a door. It took a lot of bravery to do what he did. Edited February 1, 2007 by WITHTEETH

[Gorgon]

As an agnostic I subscribe to the only failsafe belief there is ; I know what it is I don't know, and probably will never be able to answer, prove or disprove.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Gorgon

[WITHTEETH]

As an agnostic I subscribe to the only failsafe belief there is ; I know what it is I don't know, and probably will never be able to answer, prove or disprove.

Would you stay neutral when yours and others existence is at stake? Many dangers lurk, overpopulation, global warming, disease. When i made my decision it wasn't an absolute answer, it was my best guess, thats all everybody ever does.

[Gfted1]

Yeeees, and since females are WZ, they can create either WW or ZZ.

 

Since Human females are XX, they'd be able to create XX or... XX.

 

 

In fact, look at what you posted!!!

 

 

The offspring of parthenogenesis will be all female if two like chromosomes determine the female sex (such as systems where XX is female and XY is male), but male if the female sex is determined by unlike chromosomes (such as systems where WZ is female and ZZ is male), because the process involves the inheritance and subsequent duplication of only a single sex chromosome. The offspring may be capable of sexual reproduction, if this mode exists in the species.

 

 

Your quote fully supports degawinda's statement.

 

I stand corrected. It wasnt an attempt to "call him out", I simply misread it while looking up the word "parthenogenesis". And really, you dont always have to get so excited every time someone posts a counter-point.

[Calax]

Just jumping in after having a two day stint of no Internet so...

 

Christianity at it's base might be good... but if there is a god, it does a really nice job of hiding. (note "it" god as an omicent being doesn't have a gender... nor should the angels).

 

Also, attempting to prove that evolution exsists to a young earth creationist is like hitting your head against a wall. I think that Religion in general is going to either have to make RADICAL changes or somthing in the near future because in previous eras god was used as an explanation of the unknown. Now there is MUCH less unknowns for god to play with.

[Ravenskya]

Hmmm... long and interesting thread. I'm not going to quote anyone or any articles or whatever... some of you will know me others will not, either way I can't read 5 pages of crap and not respond.

 

My father was raised Catholic and is now .... hmmm what's the word for it... someone who believes in God but doesn't believe that God pays any attention to the world. That he made it and left it to see what it would do... something like that. My Mom is a Lutheran. I was Baptized Catholic and sent to a Catholic school until 2nd grade when I informed several teachers that there was no God. At that time I was removed from the Catholic School and spent the rest of my time in the Public School System.

 

In about 8th grade I began reading about different religions... Wicca was interesting for a while but I couldn't get past the idea of a male and female god (or magic for that matter)... I just couldn't get the point of a God having a sex. A sex is for procreation, and as far as I know... other than Jesus there aren't any little God-lets running around. I studied Islam, and Hindu and just about anything else that didn't sound or remind me of Catholicism. I always knew that there was a higher being but being cursed with an extremely high IQ I just couldn't put all the pieces together in a way that my brain would accept. If you ask me how I know there is a Higher Being I can't tell you other than everything in my heart and mind tells me there is. Much like if you told me to prove that I loved my husband, I could do a million physical things to show it... but none of them would prove what is in my heart and mind they could all just be for show (much like many religious folk).

 

Over the years my belief structure is slowly settling in, I do believe in the Bible... word for word? No... not until I learn to read it in it's native tongue. I don't trust man to have gotten it 100% right, but then again I don't believe that God would have allowed them to pervert it that much. Do I go to church? No... I think the biggest downfall of religion is it's followers. They have never read the teachings, they believe what Hollywood has recreated for them as gospel and they bargain shot through the Bible picking and choosing what is most convenient for them to believe for their lives. I believe in God, but I'm not sure that I believe there are any true Christians... they are a dying breed replaced by chameleons hiding in their guise. For that matter I don't believe many of any faith truly exist any more. The world is hard to cope with, and we have become addicted to our sin. Anything that would come between us and our porn, infidelity, gossip, murder, rape, theft, drug use, etc is too frightening for us to even consider believing in.

 

My crisis of faith ended in the matter of one week with two prayers. I never really prayed before... I mean I did before tests and I had sworn many oaths to whatever god would have been listening for a million things... but none of it meant anything. I was independent and believed I could make it through anything. I certainly didn't want any God telling me what to do... and I had no plans of reading some thousand page book to get every little rule he wanted me to try to follow. But then my life hit the ****ter at 110mph. I woke up one morning, knowing the man I had been with for 2 years was still out with his 18 year old girlfriend... I knew he was doing heroin... I hated my job, I had wrecked my car and had over 15k in medical bills and since I had just switched jobs there was no insurance to cover them... I didn't have the money to buy gas or lunch because my then boyfriend had emptied my bank account to get high. There were what seemed like a million other reasons to end my life that morning... it had been a steady downhill slope starting about 4 years before, but I had found the rocks at the bottom. The worst part was that I was alone... not a friend within 500 miles. I sat on the end of my bed and cried and finally looked up at the ceiling fan and screamed at God... I screamed every terrible thing I could think of at him and when I was done I just collapsed on the ground and said "If you were really there I wish you would give me a hug." At this point the Dog was about insane with the fact that he had to pee so I took him out and discovered that I had a flat tire as we walked passed my car. Still sobbing I called into work and began to change my tire (yes women can change tires too, it's just harder for us to get those damn lug nuts off). Suddenly a neighbor I never knew I had came and helped me. I couldn't believe it ... but he gave me a hug. Creepy coincidence I thought, but whatever. I got the tire on and got to the gas station and ran into this kid who used to work for me.. he came running up and gave me a hug. It went on like that all day... strangers and people I only barely knew giving me hugs for one reason or another. It was disturbing but I have to say... my brain kept telling me that it had to be the alignment of the moon and stars or something. But my heart told me to give it another shot.

 

That night (after kicking out the boyfriend and finding a new apartment.... it was a busy day) I sat down and said the longest prayer of my life... it started out with "God, please either keep men out of my life, or send me the right one" I then spend over 45 minutes listing everything I could think of that would make a man the perfect man for me. I tried to cover every detail down to "must shower daily" to "must be a good father". I thought I was very specific. by the end of the week I had met my husband. (No we didn't marry right away... that was 2 years later) but the point is that he fit EVERY SINGLE THING that I told God that I wanted... unfortunately for me, I wasn't as clear on some topics as I should have been... and I left a few things out... but they are minor.

 

Either way those two prayers proved to me in my logical 155IQ mind that God is there for me and he listens. I must also however be VERY CAREFUL for what I pray for.

 

Does this prove anything to an atheist? Not a damn thing. Do I go around preaching religion to people? Nope, not in the least. I have finally learned that religion is not a mass of people all forced to believe the same thing... its you and God and the relationship the two of you have... which will be different for everyone. My relationship with my Dad is very different than my sister's relationship with him... I think it's about the same with God. Well I've really rambled enough and I think I've completely forgotten what the point was that I was trying to make...

 

My basic take on religion: All of them tell you to be a better person. To treat people with love and kindness... and if we all did that, based on a religion or not.. this world would be a hell of a better place.

 

Cheers

[Gromnir]

Jesus and the others are the Light of God,

[Ravenskya]

there is no good reason to believe that the lucifer mentioned in the christian bible = satan.

 

as for the rest of the thread... am not gonna touch.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Very True... much of what people believe about Christianity is not actually based on the bible, but on other works such as the Divine Comedy

[Dark Moth]

*snip*

My father was raised Catholic and is now .... hmmm what's the word for it... someone who believes in God but doesn't believe that God pays any attention to the world. That he made it and left it to see what it would do... something like that.

*snip*

A deist, maybe?

 

Other than that...wow. Very deep and at the same time touching. Very true, too. Props to ya.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Dark Moth

[Gromnir]

*snip*

My father was raised Catholic and is now .... hmmm what's the word for it... someone who believes in God but doesn't believe that God pays any attention to the world. That he made it and left it to see what it would do... something like that.

*snip*

A deist, maybe?

 

Other than that...wow. Very deep and at the same time touching. Very true, too. Props to ya.

 

"i believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." -Einstein

 

HA! Good Fun!