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Calax

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Hey, I go by my own personal experiences, but I have read an article stating that marriage is on a decline. Good news of that so is divorce.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-0...t-divorce_x.htm

 

And what one would categorize as familial instability I would say it increases adaptability.

Edited by Sand

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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Actually, I think marriage is quite a critical mechanism for social stability; especially now with longer, thinner family trees (not so many siblings, older generations living longer).

 

The advent of step-families is one very useful way to bring the powerful familial motivator to bear on a rapidly splintering society.

 

:(

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I disagree. When my mother did eventually marry the "stepfamily" wanted nothing to do with us and frankly I didn't want anything to do with them. About 15 years later they had a divorce. It was a complete waste of time and effort, then again she did get most of his stuff. :(

Edited by Sand

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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Sand is against marriage. However, I'm betting most women in Iowa are the marrying kind, which would mean that the chances of Sand passing his genes to someone would be kind of slim. As such, I think a "...and there was much rejoicing" is in order. :D

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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Unless I go forward with my plan and move to Seattle or Boston in August. :(

 

Maybe I should move to Houston instead?

 

Hmmm... I might need to flip a coin or three. :aiee:

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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Don't you dare...

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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I disagree.  When my mother did eventually marry the "stepfamily" wanted nothing to do with us and frankly I didn't want anything to do with them.  About 15 years later they had a divorce.  It was a complete waste of time and effort, then again she did get most of his stuff.  :)

There you go with that enormous sample space again.

 

At least now perhaps you may see why it is poor science; you see, there are many reasons why these people didn't want anything to do with you ... not even the weight of social custom imbued in marriage could overcome it ... :lol:

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all scientific reasoning is inductive... :)"

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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You can only get married by either a pastor (or other rep of the church) or a judge (I think),

not true at all. there are plenty of others licensed to perform marriages. it's easy to do a google search and find out particulars, which vary from place to place.

 

plus you have to jump through several hoops to get to that point

not really, buuuut...

 

including blood tests,

has nothing to do with the marriage itself. typically, places that require blood tests do so only to let you know before hand whether or not you can conceive without drugs. some blood types are incompatible with one another (particularly differing rh factors) unless drugs are used.

 

premarital counceling (which can be provided by a pastor)

not true, either. most places want some sort of "class" attendance, but it is not necessarily required, AND, not done only by a pastor. in florida, we had to file for some sort of license, and could get a discount if we did a "class" first. the money we paid to our minister guy (uh, lutheran, whatever they are), was actually applied to the license fee. however, we were not required to do this "class" nor were we required to do it with a pastor. also, it was only one hour of "counseling," hardly significant.

 

AND marrige and all the benefits thereof are ONLY for a marrige between opposite genders.

the only true statement you've made yet.

 

That sounds like a religious institution to me.

mostly religious, yes, which is where i think it should remain. 2nd true statement i suppose.

 

next time you go off on a rant opposing something, i suggest actually finding out the truth first. failing to check your "facts" can result in arguments that are easy for others to find flaws with.

 

taks

comrade taks... just because.

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The problem with Sand is that he uses his own personal experiences to make conclusions and apply standards to society (inductive reasoning).

 

Experience is the best teacher! :joy:

 

REALLY. ;)

 

You also forgot how I tend to be irrational in my arguments, and often make my opinions look like facts.

 

In any case I think that government should remove itself from worrying about marriage. At least for me it is part of one's religious beliefs, or lack thereof, and a private affair between the couple and the couple's friends and family.

Edited by Sand

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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Wrong.  ;))

 

Was that aimed at me?

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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You can only get married by either a pastor (or other rep of the church) or a judge (I think),

not true at all. there are plenty of others licensed to perform marriages. it's easy to do a google search and find out particulars, which vary from place to place.

note that I added the qualifier of I think. I wasn't sure so my statement still holds.
premarital counceling (which can be provided by a pastor)

not true, either. most places want some sort of "class" attendance, but it is not necessarily required, AND, not done only by a pastor. in florida, we had to file for some sort of license, and could get a discount if we did a "class" first. the money we paid to our minister guy (uh, lutheran, whatever they are), was actually applied to the license fee. however, we were not required to do this "class" nor were we required to do it with a pastor. also, it was only one hour of "counseling," hardly significant.

Did I say it was ONLY provided by a pastor? No... actually read the things written next time
AND marrige and all the benefits thereof are ONLY for a marrige between opposite genders.

the only true statement you've made yet.

 

That sounds like a religious institution to me.

mostly religious, yes, which is where i think it should remain. 2nd true statement i suppose.

 

next time you go off on a rant opposing something, i suggest actually finding out the truth first. failing to check your "facts" can result in arguments that are easy for others to find flaws with.

 

taks

and if the relationship is mostly religious then why is it given benefits which are also denied to other couples in almost the exact same situation (really this depends on the state) but don't comply to a one man one woman model? And why would our "beloved" congress try to put into a constitutional amendment to make it so that Marriage was defined as one man one woman?

 

If you're going to make benefits for a couple to live together, extend them to all possible combinations, not just the child bearing ones.

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Wrong.  :()

 

Was that aimed at me?

Yes. Inductive reasoning is often a logical fallacy when used improperly, as in Sand's case. While inductive reasoning is often used in scientific observations, it has limits and doesn't always work when applied to certain situation. Case in point: Sand. He's using a very limited support (his own experience) and used it to apply to all of human society (a favorite tactic of his). ;)" For example: my fiance almost stabbed me. My near-marriage hurt me, therefore, marriage is a harmful, outdated social institution. That is a good example of weak induction, which is what HadeSand is using. Usually good scientific reasoning uses a mixture of inductive and deductive reasoning depending on the situation.

Edited by Dark Moth
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I am not just using that experience to base my views on marriage. I am using a whole lot of different observations. Like my mother's short marriage to my stepfather, the relationships that my friends are in, and the occasional article I find here and there.

 

Here's a question for you, Dark Moth since you seem to have all the answers. Would it be better to have a couple live together for a great number of years and have children unmarried then split up without all the legal mess or be married during that time and have to deal with lawyers and go to court to absolve the marriage?

Edited by Sand

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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Calax, what's your point?

 

That marriage should not be restricted to hetrosexuals? Or that the legal benefits of marriage should be extended to all civic partnerships?

 

Your points are diluted by your (poorly researched) ranting.

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Well, on the topic of gay marriage they should be allowed to marry if they want. I don't see the point of discriminating against someone based on sexual orientation. Nothing good can come from discrimination.

Edited by Sand

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

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I am not just using that experience to base my views on marriage.  I am using a whole lot of different observations.  Like my mother's short marriage to my stepfather, the relationships that my friends are in, and the occasional article I find here and there.

I stand by what I said.

 

Here's a question for you, Dark Moth since you seem to have all the answers.  Would it be better to have a couple live together for a great number of years and have children unmarried then split up without all the legal mess or be married during that time and have to deal with  lawyers and go to court to absolve the marriage?

Oh, I have all the answers now? First off, you're making it seem like getting a divorce these days is practically impossible or still a social taboo, both of which are untrue.

 

To answer your question, here's another. Are you suggesting we should just abolish marriage entirely? Is that it? Then we'll have people running around having children with whomever they damn well please. Better yet, no sense of commitment, no meaning anymore to the concept of a life partner, it'd be just one big free for all. I think you fail to grasp the concept of why marriage is such an important institution to begin with. To answer your question simply: yes, go through the legal mess. :) To have that kind of regulation would be better than none at all.

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The importance of marriage is to show that one person ownes the other, plain and simple. Thats why its not important for homo's to get married, both partners being of the same sex there can be no clear ownership. Well, except for when a butch-lesbo is in play, then if one wears a tie and pants to work they should be able to get married. Man on man homosexuality should be ignored since it is the least aesthetically pleasing of all homosexuality, besides when a she-male is present.

People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.

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I see you aren't married. :D

 

 

 

Nope, the heart wanders where it will until I find that right woman who can emasculate me with a look. :'(

People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.

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