Revan's tactical prowess?

[Guest The Architect]

Now, I'm not trying to say that Revan wasn't a military genius, a master tactician, a brilliant strategist or anything like that, because the truth is, I don

[DarthReliguim]

What proof is there of Revan

[Darth Mortis]

Consider this, the offical line is that the Republic lost ten of its soldiers for every Mandolorian killed. Since its highly unlikely that the Republic had ten times the number of forces as the Mandolorians-and no military force could sustain losses like that for any length of time and remain a fighting force-that means that most of those losses must have been taken before Revan took command. Getting a force that had taken losses that high and not only being able to stop it from falling apart, but turn it into something that faught back and won fights is remarkable. My guess would be that losses against the Mandolorians dropped sharply once Revan was in charge, even though the Republic was on the offensive. This would imply that Revan was able to concentrate his forces where the Madolorians were thinnest while at the same time guarding against attacks elsewhere. Such a skill would be remarkable, and probably the basis of Revans reputation.

 

It's also worth remembering that when Revan attacked the Republic he managed to take worlds without destroying the infostructure in the process. That implies great skill in knowing the exact amount of force needed to remove the defenders-or at least get them away from what you want to keep.

[Sturm]

I dont know where the hell Revan even got his great tactical intelligence from anyways, why didnt any of the other Jedi have such things? You didnt hear about Malak cleansing the galaxy of Mandalorians. I dont see what makes him so special that out of no where a mere jedi becomes a grand military tactitian to take on war hardened warriors.

[Darth Mortis]

I dont know where the hell Revan even got his great tactical intelligence from anyways, why didnt any of the other Jedi have such things? You didnt hear about Malak cleansing the galaxy of Mandalorians. I dont see what makes him so special that out of no where a mere jedi becomes a grand military tactitian to take on war hardened warriors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First your assuming that Revans tactical skills came from the force, there is no indication that this is the case. The force might help in some cases, but intelligence and a natural instict are more important. Sidiuous didn't destroy the Jedi order because he was more powerful than the Jedi-Mace Windu proved to be far better in a fight in that he would have killed him had Anikin not intervened. Sidious destroyed the Jedi order because he out thought them, which is what Revan did to the Mandolorians.

 

Second you answered your own question. Revan was a great tactition because he managed to take on war hardened warriors with a force that was demorillised and hadn't won any battles.

 

Oh, and since one of Revans teachers called him/her 'power' I wouldn't call Revan a 'mere Jedi'

Edited December 21, 2006 by Darth Mortis

[Sturm]

No, I'm not assuming that the force helped him, I am only stating that he is a mere jedi as in, how is a 'mere jedi' magically going to come along and stop a faction which has been winning the war up untill Revan joined, how is a 'mere jedi' magically become a Rommel overnight?

[Darth Mortis]

I would assume that since Jedi have nearly always assumed command positions in Republic armys, right up to the clone wars, that part of basic Jedi training included tactics and stratagy. Revan must have had a natural tactical skill added to this. In other words he didn't come from nowhere.

[Zann]

Ask Canderous.

[Guest The Architect]

Ask Canderous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, I forgot to mention this.

 

Canderous was defending the honour of the Mandalorians. They always talk about how great and powerful they are, and yet they were defeated. To say anything less than Revan was an incredible genius would put a bad name on them. If they said he was weak, then that would obviously prove that they weren't quite as powerful as they claim, so that leaves us back to square one, doesn't it?

 

Canderous: "You had us outnumbered five to one. You had more ships, more troops, more supplies, and the Jedi on your side, and we still made the Republic tremble before we fell."

 

The Republic always had the advantage, with or without the Jedi. I don't see why only a military genius could have defeated the Mandalorians for. Revan may have been a masterful tactician, but I haven't seen any proof of it.

 

If you ask me, it was Revan's leadership skills, his/her ability to inspire his/her allies, to convert people to his/her cause and his/her skill in combat that won the Mandalorian Wars, not all these braniac tactics that the Mandalorians couldn't handle.

 

It doesn't take a military genius to see the worth in preserving some of the Republic's infrastructure, and to know how to do that. The Mandalorians claim that without Revan, they would have won the war, but that can be nothing more than a claim, because it never happened.

 

I think with or without Revan, the Republic and the Jedi still would have won, but it probably would of required the Jedi who didn't fight in the Mandalorian Wars to eventually have stepped in.

Edited December 22, 2006 by The Architect

[DeathScepter]

I was under the impression that The Jedi Order won't join the War under any condition.

[Darth Mortis]

I was under the impression that The Jedi Order won't join the War under any condition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*Nods* It is meantioned several times in both games that the Jedi council didn't act, it was a group of Jedi who followed Revan that took part in the war.

[Guest The Architect]

I was under the impression that The Jedi Order won't join the War under any condition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*Nods* It is meantioned several times in both games that the Jedi council didn't act, it was a group of Jedi who followed Revan that took part in the war.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And...your point is Darth Mortis? Oh and DeathScepter, the Jedi Council said they would have eventually acted.

Edited December 22, 2006 by The Architect

[Zann]

Well, the game unfortunately doesn't give much info on the war, so unless it was elaborated better in the comics or novels, the truth can only be speculated...

 

Anyway:

 

Canderous: "You had us outnumbered five to one. You had more ships, more troops, more supplies, and the Jedi on your side, and we still made the Republic tremble before we fell."

 

The Republic always had the advantage, with or without the Jedi. I don't see why only a military genius could have defeated the Mandalorians for. Revan may have been a masterful tactician, but I haven't seen any proof of it.

 

Only two things here: the Republic may have had the advantage in numbers and supplies, but the Mandalorians were a warrior race, with superior training, motivation and probably technology. So either the all Republic commanders were the biggest idiots in the galaxy, or the Republic Fleet wasn't too advantaged. Also, the jedi went to war with Revan, not before him.

 

Revan himself was was still only a knight, charismatic as you want, but that sure couldn't grant him the command of the entire Fleet. Then his forces were limited in numbers, and probably weren't more than the mandalorian's legions.

At this point, he managed not only to hold them off, but force them to retreat. With the limitations above, he might have done something good with them after all... "

 

If you ask me, it was Revan's leadership skills, his/her ability to inspire his/her allies, to convert people to his/her cause and his/her skill in combat that won the Mandalorian Wars, not all these braniac tactics that the Mandalorians couldn't handle.

 

Maybe, maybe not. That's speculation too.

[Guest The Architect]

Well, the game unfortunately doesn't give much info on the war, so unless it was elaborated better in the comics or novels, the truth can only be speculated...

 

Anyway:

 

Only two things here: the Republic may have had the advantage in numbers and supplies, but the Mandalorians were a warrior race, with superior training, motivation and probably technology. So either the all Republic commanders were the biggest idiots in the galaxy, or the Republic Fleet wasn't too advantaged. Also, the jedi went to war with Revan, not beforehim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So, who says the Mandalorians had superior training, motivation and technology? That sounds like speculation to me too. Why would Canderous say what he said if it wasn't true? If the Republic didn't have the advantage, like Canderous pointed out, then why doesn't Carth argue with Canderous about that point? And, I never said that the Jedi went to war before Revan, so what's your point?

 

Revan himself was was still only a knight, charismatic as you want, but that sure couldn't grant him the command of the entire Fleet. Then his forces were limited in numbers, and probably weren't more than the mandalorian's legions.

At this point, he managed not only to hold them off, but force them to retreat. With the limitations above, he might have done something good with them after all...  "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, the Republic and the Jedi did have the advantage of numbers. The point I'm trying to make is that the Republic and the Jedi probably won the Mandalorian Wars not because Revan was some tactical master mind but because they had the clear advantage of numbers, ships and supplies.

 

Maybe, maybe not. That's speculation too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know. That's why I said if you ask me.

Edited December 22, 2006 by The Architect

[Zann]

So, who says the Mandalorians had superior training, motivation and technology? That sounds like speculation to me too. Why would Canderous say what he said if it wasn't true? If the Republic didn't have the advantage, like Canderous pointed out, then why doesn't Carth argue with Canderous about that point? And, I never said that the Jedi went to war before Revan, so what's your point?

 

The point is that the mere numbers were not enough agains the mandalorians. Being warriors by tradition I assume their training wasn't based on watching butterflies all day long for once. Their technology (at least war equipment) was better, at least judging by the weapons and armors you can see in game. As for their motivation, well, you obviously don't go into war with an empire because of boredom, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

No, the Republic and the Jedi did have the advantage of numbers. The point I'm trying to make is that the Republic and the Jedi probably won the Mandalorian Wars not because Revan was some tactical master mind but because they had the clear advantage of numbers, ships and supplies.

 

I think with or without Revan, the Republic and the Jedi still would have won, but it probably would of required the Jedi who didn't fight in the Mandalorian Wars to eventually have stepped in.

 

.

[savaged]

pwnt

[DeathScepter]

I was under the impression that The Jedi Order won't join the War under any condition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*Nods* It is meantioned several times in both games that the Jedi council didn't act, it was a group of Jedi who followed Revan that took part in the war.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And...your point is Darth Mortis? Oh and DeathScepter, the Jedi Council said they would have eventually acted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well being cautious is quite healthy but What the Jedi Council was doing was very foolish.

 

 

 

 

The Mandalorian were fighting various peoples before the War with the Republic for at least a good twenty years.

 

 

 

 

The Jedi Council could have studied the Mandalorian more so during this time to see if they are a threat or not to the Republic.

 

 

 

 

 

Also during Kotor 2, With the Situation with the Exile(ls verison) they had their chance to take the fight back to the Sith Lords. Rather Helping the Exile to fight the Sith Lords, They rather strip him from the force.

 

 

 

The Arrogance of the Jedi Council I do say.

[Guest The Architect]

pwnt

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pwnt? WTF? How? Revan fanboy, perhaps?

 

Zann, you

Edited December 22, 2006 by The Architect

[DeathScepter]

btw it is not uncommon for a Mandalorian to kill a Jedi Knight.

 

 

So I hold the Jedi knight's training not higher than the Mandalorians but equals.

[Darth Mortis]

Now, by saying with or without Revan, you probably assume that no Jedi would have helped the Republic, but I beg to differ, as I believe that Malak would have led the charge without Revan, as he was just as keen as Revan was to fight the Mandalorians, if Revan didn

Edited December 23, 2006 by Darth Mortis

[DeathScepter]

yes give into your anger, your hate, your fear.....

[Zann]

Now, by saying with or without Revan, you probably assume that no Jedi would have helped the Republic, but I beg to differ, as I believe that Malak would have led the charge without Revan, as he was just as keen as Revan was to fight the Mandalorians, if Revan didn

[Guest The Architect]

I guess we've strayed off topic here a bit. The point of my topic was to find out if their are any details, any proof of Revan's tactical prowess in the Mandalorian Wars, since apart from the 'cleaning house' tactic, there isn't really any proof that Revan was this supposed military genius, and I'm one of those people that won't say that Revan was a military genius, because their is no proof that he/she was.

 

I'm not trying to say that Revan wasn't a master tactician, he/she must have been at least good, but a military genius? I don't think it's right to say that he/she was for sure since we don't know what made him/her this supposed mastermind, as the details of what happened in the Mandalorian Wars are vague.

 

That's another point of this topic of mine, to make the point that none of us know how good of a strategist Revan was, so it's wrong to say that he/she was brilliant at military tactics or whatever, as that would just be fanboyism more than anything.

Edited December 23, 2006 by The Architect

[Dyan]

In answer to the original question, I doubt you ever will see any proof because Revan's military genius is a plot device; nothing more. The details are left vague on purpose, imo.

[CSI: Nihilus]

I think Revan is just a Sith lord...There is no direct evidence that Revan can command the entire fleet...But I think that might be true, as it's revealed in K2, Mandalore revealed Revan is a good stratergist.

Edited December 24, 2006 by CSI: Nihilus