NWN2: Discussion

[roshan]

Yesterday, I tried a little experiment. I created a blank module and started a game. OMFG 20 FPS - the first time I have ever seen the game actually perform smoothly. I found out that at such high FPS levels, normal mapping and bloom actually impacted my frame rate. Turning each on increased frame rate by 2.5. Oddly enough modifying resolution had no impact on my frame rate. As usual texture settings were useless. I didnt bother messing with shadows as Im pretty much used to having them off now. So I was getting a decent 25 FPS(max, occassionally dropped down to about half of this, seemingly randomly).

 

I opened the map editor and put in 20 chests. When I started the module again, FPS immediately dropped down to 18 at max.

 

A 25% FPS drop for a bunch of chests? No wonder my FPS in the OC maxes out at 5.

Edited December 2, 2006 by roshan

[Sand]

Its not the game. Its the crap computer you have, roshan.

[roshan]

Its not the game.  Its the crap computer you have, roshan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I meet the requirements, therefore, the game should be playable on my machine.

[Sand]

Naive. The requirements on the box is never the requirements of the game. How long have you been in PC gaming? You should know this by now.

[Gromnir]

Its not the game.  Its the crap computer you have, roshan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

it probably is the game, but trying to fix performance issues that vary so much from rig to rig must be a nightmare for obsidian.

 

Gromnir can't play game 'bove 1024x768, but we can increase/decrease textures w/o noticeable change in performance. shadows kill... and that temple room with the indoor snow... that were giving us less than 5 fps.

 

other folks gots complete different problems.

 

is probably not roshan's or Gromnir's hardware, but obsidian can't fix problems that is different for everybody. am not making exuses for 'em, but we can see why it is so difficult to cure problems.

 

roshan's other concerns likes the stuff he coment on with screenie... most of that stuff is either minutae or stuff we wouldn't want changed, but his performance concerns is probably legit... w/o even the possibility of a potential solution.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited December 2, 2006 by Gromnir

[roshan]

Naive.  The requirements on the box is never the requirements of the game.  How long have you been in PC gaming?  You should know this by now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Other people with the same specs as me have reported that the game is playable on their machines. Therefore I am probably the victim of a pretty bad engine bug or something.

 

Also its not like my card is at the very bottom. It is not too far off from the recommended cards, at least judging by one of the stickied threads in the tech support forum. Obsidian has even said that I should be able to get 30 FPS with my card by lowering settings - but lowering settings does nothing.

[Sand]

Well, I am running the game at 1400 x 1050 with medium shadows and water effects turned off. I am using a crappy but modified eMachine (Sempron 2.0 Ghz 3400+) with a X1900GT video card. I am getting about 30 to 40 FPS.

 

Aren't you using a laptop? In my experience Laptops suck for gaming.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Sand

[roshan]

Yeah, but I have a gaming laptop, albeit an old one. Specs are still specs though.

 

If there is one good thing about my experience with NWN2, is that it made me optimize my laptop in a hundred ways I never knew about. Now it takes seconds to get Windows started up. (exaggeration, I havent actually timed it)

[roshan]

Its not the game.  Its the crap computer you have, roshan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

it probably is the game, but trying to fix performance issues that vary so much from rig to rig must be a nightmare for obsidian.

 

Gromnir can't play game 'bove 1024x768, but we can increase/decrease textures w/o noticeable change in performance. shadows kill... and that temple room with the indoor snow... that were giving us less than 5 fps.

 

other folks gots complete different problems.

 

is probably not roshan's or Gromnir's hardware, but obsidian can't fix problems that is different for everybody. am not making exuses for 'em, but we can see why it is so difficult to cure problems.

 

roshan's other concerns likes the stuff he coment on with screenie... most of that stuff is either minutae or stuff we wouldn't want changed, but his performance concerns is probably legit... w/o even the possibility of a potential solution.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I dont think all of the issues are minute ones - and even the minute ones add up. Thse changes would help make the game more playable. Currently, accessing a characters inventory takes 3 clicks plus moving the mouse cursor all the way accross the screen diagonally(1 less if the character is already selected). It could potentially take only two clicks with a mouse if a character is not selected, and 1 if the character already is. Moving stuff around the inventory takes a lot of time in NWN2 since items need to be dragged around - it also takes energy. It could potentially be a lot easier. You want characters to stop following you? You need to hold down the mouse button, then navigate a menu and click two options. The moment you select another character, following is back on, once more, you need to repeat. If you have 5 characters and you want all the characters to be completely independent of each other you need to do the process five times over! - when there could simply be a button for toggling follow the leader on and off. You want to see an enemies health, you need to pause and then right click on them. You want to check the health of 10 enemies to decide which to cast a spell at? You need to click on them all individually to find out their healths. Why not just have to hover? Or press a button in the keyboard to see it all?

 

The automap as it is right now is barely functional. When the lines around the map, the map label and black space take more space than the automap itself, its quite safe to conclude that its got serious problems. Clicking on a map, any map, in pretty much any game, will move your character to a spot on that map. RPGs like the IE games have it. Its a staple feature of RTS games. Why doesnt NWN2 have this functionality? The ability to put markers on maps has existed since the days of BG2. Why doesnt NWN2 have this? Why isnt there an option for the map to rotate according to the direction the player is facing? Why doesnt the map show doors, whether open or closed?

 

Many aspects of NWN2s interface are simply broken - Obsidian has realized some of the problems and they plan to fix them in future patches.

Edited December 2, 2006 by roshan

[Gromnir]

"i" access for inventory.

 

black space on map is only an issue if you is at edge. *gasp*

 

at the resolution you is playing, of course the mini-map is... mini. hit the "m" button.

 

etc.

 

most of your complaints is so minor as to be non-issues.. or they ain't issues at all.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Dark_Raven]

Not issues just incessant whining.

[roshan]

black space on map is only an issue if you is at edge. *gasp*

 

Why should it even be an issue at all?

 

at the resolution you is playing, of course the mini-map is... mini. hit the "m" button.

 

Why shouldnt I just be able to resize the minimap? Also correct me if I am wrong but as far as I know tracking only works on the minimap.

 

In any case one of the main reasons I have for playing at a high resolution is so that I can use the normal map instead of the barely functional minimap.

 

most of your complaints is so minor as to be non-issues.. or they ain't issues at all.

 

Issues arise when functionality is sacrificed for the sake of fancy lines - unless the person is a hardcore NWN fanboy, in which case issues seem to arise due to the exact opposite reason.

[Gromnir]

"Why should it even be an issue at all?"

 

it isn't. neither is most of your other "issues."

 

HA! Good Fun!

[roshan]

Right, they arent issues. That must be why Obsidian plans to address them in future patches.

[Gromnir]

Right, they arent issues. That must be why Obsidian plans to address them in future patches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

if 'nuff people complain 'bout something it becomes an issue. perhaps there is 'nuff wacky roshanites out there that is bothered by blackness showing where edge of playable area is, but it does make Gromnir wonder 'bout the mentality of the Average Gamer if that is in fact true.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[roshan]

Expectations for how polished a games interface needs to be have increased dramatically over the past few years. NWN2s interface is a regression back to the times before I even started gaming.

 

You are showing your age, I think.

[Dark_Raven]

Right, they arent issues. That must be why Obsidian plans to address them in future patches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

if 'nuff people complain 'bout something it becomes an issue. perhaps there is 'nuff wacky roshanites out there that is bothered by blackness showing where edge of playable area is, but it does make Gromnir wonder 'bout the mentality of the Average Gamer if that is in fact true.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could it be the fog of war? "

[roshan]

Right, they arent issues. That must be why Obsidian plans to address them in future patches.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

if 'nuff people complain 'bout something it becomes an issue. perhaps there is 'nuff wacky roshanites out there that is bothered by blackness showing where edge of playable area is, but it does make Gromnir wonder 'bout the mentality of the Average Gamer if that is in fact true.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Could it be the fog of war? "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

LOL!

[Sand]

I really don't have a problem with the inventory or the interface.

 

The inventory is just one button push away for me.

[Gorth]

Aren't you using a laptop?  In my experience Laptops suck for gaming.

They don't always suck. My laptop runs NWN2 with 35pfs indoor (rebuilt Ironfist halls) and 20fps outdoors (Crossroad keep). Low shadow settings, double AA, water effects turned on.

[roshan]

I heard that water effects decrease performance even in areas without water - you might be better turning them off for most areas.

[Gorth]

It's Ok as long as I don't really "suffer". If my framerate was at a crawl, like 10fps, I might take steps like that. Most of the time though, it's the load times that annoy me, not the speed once it's loaded

[roshan]

10 FPS is a crawl? Id be thankful if I ever got it that high.

[Gorth]

My condolences

 

That *would* suck.

[Gromnir]

if people can't use tracking 'cause of map size at greater resolutions, then eventhough Gromnir thinks tracking is useless, obsidian should do something to address problem. if interface makes a class feature unuseable, then there is a problem that needs attention. but your other complaints... ain't stuff Gromnir would waste effort addressing. is minor quibbles.

 

HA! Good Fun!