In America, we are electing our Congressmen

[WITHTEETH]

christians are the cancer of the world, along with all the other fundamentalists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You have been reported.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

report me if you like. I think there is something terribly wrong with Christianity, not that Christians aren't good people, many of them are, and so are many atheists. Good people do bad things in the name of religion many a times. Christianity has no provable hypothesis, it has been described as "Platonism for the people" so to make it more Palatable so to digest it easier. It makes no connection to reality.

 

It makes non believers look worst then pedophiles because they could merely tell your child about a different viewpoint that if your child granted creedance it would condemn them to a eternity of suffering in a place called hell. A supposed finite crime that gets infinite punishment. With this in mind justifies the Inquisition that the great lights of the Church like Augustas and Aquinas supported. These guys are still tuaght in every seminar in the us.

 

 

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)

 

The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)

 

The only reason Christianity is milder now compared back in the Dark ages when the Catholic Church had there power and their book burning period, is because focus has shifted from god ruling the people, to now the goverment is run for the people by the people, excluding god.

 

Liberal interpretation of the bible is the result of the years of human civilization repeatedly bumping into reality. Does communion really mean your drinking the Real blood and eating the real body of Christ when you put the wafer and wine in your mouth? Was there really a devil or just a imperfection? I've even heard some Christians saying the imperfection is what the 2nd law of thermodynamics are. How about the liberalists ignoring the bad stuff and just focusing on the good stuff jesus said. There are numerous contradictions in the bible, this is painstakingly obvious begging with the first book.

 

Christianity is a burden on the world because it continues to impose its will on science, and others who want nothing to do with it. It does not care about people lying on their deathbed with Parkinson's disease, It doesn't care about the aids epidemic in Africa and the teaching of Contraceptives. or Gay rights.

 

In reality Christianity has no proof to explain its conviction, and Christianity relentlessly swings their power like a child with a gun over the millenniums. I Am hopeful still that religion can mostly disappear like slavery. I personally feel like we don't need it.

[Atreides]

You guys should chill out and watch the last two eps of South Park.

[~Di]

I agree with Sand. Religious dogma has no place in a public school unless specifically part of a class to study world religions. I certainly do not want my children taught the "alternative" theory of creationism. Creationism is, in my view, a myth put forth by various religions to support their belief in an all-powerful being.

 

To those who say that if we want to maintain separation of church and state that we must eliminate laws against murder or any other laws that supposedly emulate the ten commandments, I say poppy****. There were laws against murder in most cultures long before Moses was a gleam in his daddy's eye. What behavior is and is not acceptable in various societies is codified into law. Some societies base their laws on their religions. Our society, thankfully and constitutionally, does not. Deal with it.

[Calax]

I agree with Sand.  Religious dogma has no place in a public school unless specifically part of a class to study world religions.  I certainly do not want my children taught the "alternative" theory of creationism.  Creationism is, in my view, a myth put forth by various religions to support their belief in an all-powerful being. 

 

To those who say that if we want to maintain separation of church and state that we must eliminate laws against murder or any other laws that supposedly emulate the ten commandments, I say poppy****.  There were laws against murder in most cultures long before Moses was a gleam in his daddy's eye.  What behavior is and is not acceptable in various societies is codified into law.  Some societies base their laws on their religions.  Our society, thankfully and constitutionally, does not.  Deal with it. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunatly our leaders, in an attempt to retain power, are pushing to have more christian based laws... the abortion laws for example, have absolutly no basis in health or well being other than that of the fetus, but the church objects to it so we made several laws governing the practice and people have attempted to get it outlawed several times.

[~Di]

Unfortunatly our leaders, in an attempt to retain power, are pushing to have more christian based laws... the abortion laws for example, have absolutly no basis in health or well being other than that of the fetus, but the church objects to it so we made several laws governing the practice and people have attempted to get it outlawed several times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with you. I resent terribly laws which are made for the sole purpose of codifying religious belief and forcing it upon everyone else. Abortion laws are an example, as were laws against birth control years ago, laws against drinking or having businesses open on "the Sabbath"... any law which is created to enforce religious tenants. People in this country are free to follow nearly any religion they wish. They are not free to force others to follow their religious beliefs by codifying them into law.

[Guard Dog]

Unfortunatly our leaders, in an attempt to retain power, are pushing to have more christian based laws... the abortion laws for example, have absolutly no basis in health or well being other than that of the fetus, but the church objects to it so we made several laws governing the practice and people have attempted to get it outlawed several times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have to take issue with you here Calax. I posted my thoughts on this issue earlier so you already know I think abortion is wrong but should not be illegal. But you stated that other than the fetus no ones health or welfare is harmed by abortion. Should the fetus not get some consideration? It is by definition alive. Dosen't human life have sanctity irrespective of religous teachings? As Di pointed out, murder was illegal in most all societies even before Moses came down from the mount. If life were worthless, why is murder wrong? Just trying to give you a different angle to think about.

Edited November 11, 2006 by Guard Dog

[taks]

Doesn't matter if Creationism is a part of other religions and such.  It is part of religious dogma and therefore has no place in public schools.  That is the bottom line here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this statement is utterly nonsense. other religions are discussed in public schools. it is a simple fact that religion has dominated the entire history of modern man. to remove all reference of it from public schools would be a disservice to history.

 

for someone who seems so bent on the high road of logic and reasoning, you seem to understand neither.

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Discussing religion is not the same as "teaching" dogma.

so tell me, where in the above statement did you make any mention of discussing religion vs. teaching dogma. all you said was that "It is part of religious dogma and therefore has no place in public schools." so which is it, it can be taught, or not?

 

You can teach the Historical record of various religions and their impact on society and civilization, but not conduct services like doing a school prayer.

so, wait a minute... first it was "it has no place in public schools" and now it is "you can teach the historical record."???

 

i'm curious how you ever manage to get anyone in your life to take you seriously?

 

taks

Edited November 11, 2006 by taks

[taks]

Unfortunatly our leaders, in an attempt to retain power, are pushing to have more christian based laws...

nearly all laws have some basis in christian faith. like it or not, we came out of a religious beginning. ranting that "murder was illegal before moses" is equally moronic (sand) because the people that first outlawed it based their morals on religion as well. to assume otherwise is ridiculous.

 

the abortion laws for example, have absolutly no basis in health or well being other than that of the fetus,

oh, gee, just a minor nit "other than that of the fetus."???

 

so which is it, no basis in health or some basis in health, particularly when it concerns the fetus? sand does this. you and hades twins?

 

but the church objects to it so we made several laws governing the practice and people have attempted to get it outlawed several times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

really... the only basis for outlawing abortion is religion? you're about on par with sand here, again. hate to burst your self-righteous bubble, but not everyone that opposes abortion is doing so because of religion. pointer: understand what you are talking about before posting about it.

 

taks

Edited November 11, 2006 by taks

[Dark Moth]

Well, just one poster, actually.  Most posters here actually tend to be more respectful and restrained than that.  Even still, insults like that don't affect me in the least.  They actually prompt me only to laugh at the poster who sinks to such childish levels.  Looking back, I probably could have reported him, but I decided not too.  ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I am trying to be more restrained in my own comments. I really don't want to offend anybody here with my ranting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was referring to Lucius, not you. You thankfully have at least shown more restraint when it comes to these things.

 

BTW Calax, there is no way you can say that anti-abortion is a religious doctrine in anyway. Frankly I think it's silly myself to equate that with Christianity. You don't need to be Christian to be pro-life, many people just associate the two. You don't have to be religious to value life or to be offended by someone killing their baby. The only thing that you could completely tie with religion is ID and to a lesser extent, a ban on gay marriage.

 

Well, religion in school is fine, but it belongs in religion class. That's how it is here, and thank ****ing hippie christ for that, I've never ever heard a word about this creationism nonsense in all the years I had biology for instance.  :joy:

 

Oh and seriously, do kids in the US public schools have to say this pledge every goddamn morning? 

 

Oh and it was actually bible freak and jesus boy, get your insults straight!  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, color me corrected. " No, I haven't reported you yet, even though the many of your posts in this thread could qualify as racism or bigotry. One more time though, one more insult like "Jesus Freak", and you most certainly will.

Edited November 11, 2006 by Dark Moth

[Dark Moth]

report me if you like. I think there is something terribly wrong with Christianity, not that Christians aren't good people, many of them are, and so are many atheists. Good people do bad things in the name of religion many a times. Christianity has no provable hypothesis, it has been described as "Platonism for the people" so to make it more Palatable so to digest it easier. It makes no connection to reality.

 

It makes non believers look worst then pedophiles because they could merely tell your child about a different viewpoint that if your child granted creedance  it would condemn them to a eternity of suffering in a place called hell. A supposed finite crime that gets infinite punishment. With this in mind justifies the Inquisition that the great lights of the Church like Augustas and Aquinas  supported. These guys are still tuaght in every seminar in the us.

 

 

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)

 

The burning of unbelievers during the Inquisition was based on the words of Jesus: "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)

 

The only reason Christianity is milder now compared back in the Dark ages when the Catholic Church had there power and their book burning period, is because focus has shifted from god ruling the people, to now the goverment is run for the people by the people, excluding god. 

 

Liberal interpretation of the bible is the result of the years of human civilization repeatedly bumping into reality. Does communion really mean your drinking the Real blood and  eating the real body of Christ when you put the wafer and wine in your mouth? Was there really a devil or just a imperfection? I've even heard some Christians saying the imperfection is what the 2nd law of thermodynamics are. How about the liberalists ignoring the bad stuff and just focusing on the good stuff jesus said. There are numerous contradictions in the bible, this is painstakingly obvious begging with the first book.

 

Christianity is a burden on the world because it continues to impose its will on science, and others who want nothing to do with it. It does not care about people lying on their deathbed with  Parkinson's  disease, It doesn't care about the aids epidemic in Africa and the teaching of Contraceptives. or Gay rights.

 

In reality Christianity has no proof to explain its conviction, and Christianity relentlessly swings their power like a child with a gun over the millenniums. I Am hopeful still that religion can mostly disappear like slavery.  I personally feel like we don't need it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once again, you have proved one of my points about ignorance. Despite you claiming to have gone to a Christian school, you have repeatedly and consistently made errors regarding what the religion teaches and what it doesn't. Christianity in no way mandates things like the banning of contraceptives or the ignoring of AIDs in Africa. Not to mention your absolutely silly point about having evidence of the existence of God somehow nullifying the Christian faith. You did the same thing to in our last argument. You couldn't handle being criticized or proved wrong, and your statements about "discussing" merely turned out to be a platform for you to expression your thinly disguised bigotry toward it. Yes, bigotry. In the argument you made sweeping generalizations, made statements based on ignorance, and ignored facts even when they were shoved in your face. So you in turn went from saying "I can discuss anything about religion!" to saying "I can discuss anything about humanitarianism!" You're also ignoring the many good things religion has contributed to humanity as well as ignoring the fact that things beside religion have been responsible for many terrible events in human history. So before you go on your silly moral superiority platform, kindly at least get your facts straight.

Edited November 11, 2006 by Dark Moth

[WITHTEETH]

Wrong Dark Moth again. Catholicism regards sex as wrong if your not married and they condemn condoms use in African, they instead support abstinence, which doesn't work anywhere. They ignore the real problem, which is the virus, not the sex.

 

As i first posted, I believe that there are many good Christians just like there are many good atheists. But their belief in the supernatural leads them to obey false rules that have been hurting mankind.

Edited November 11, 2006 by WITHTEETH

[Calax]

the abortion laws for example, have absolutly no basis in health or well being other than that of the fetus,

oh, gee, just a minor nit "other than that of the fetus."???

 

so which is it, no basis in health or some basis in health, particularly when it concerns the fetus? sand does this. you and hades twins?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

other than that of a lump of flesh that could not survive on its own for twenty seconds or less.... depending upon it's state of maturity. Also if we were to outlaw abortions we'd be doing more harm than good in that people would still get abortions but from much less... reputable sources and doctors.

 

I personally equate pro lifers with religions because religious groups are the top supporter of abortion bans. I've never said ANYWHERE that all prolifers were religious, or that all deeply religious people were pro lifers.

 

and taks, saying that all laws have a religious base is incredibly stupid... I don't see Religions having codified tax rules, tax breaks, rules about crossing state lines, or a variety of other things.

 

Also religion itself came from fear of the unknown. and taboo's are from the fact that nothing good can come from performing said actions. For example, the incest taboo didn't come from the government saying OMG don't sleep with your family! it's wrong! (which is kinda anti adam and eve but hey...) it came from the fact that people noticed that if they did have kids with the immediate family they usually had kids who couldn't survive because of the fact that they were mentally handicapped.

 

Also, would pro lifers have a problem with the removal of a cancer tumor? after all said tumor is a heap of flesh that can or cannot be a danger to your life and could potentially become a seperate organism in the far flung future.

[Guard Dog]

[other than that of a lump of flesh that could not survive on its own for twenty seconds or less.... depending upon it's state of maturity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I might also make the same argument about an infant. It too is utterly helpless on it's own. When do you think a human life becomes alive? For me, it's the moment brain activity begins which is 4 weeks after conception if I remeber correctly. But you never answered my original question. Outside of religous teachings, does human life have value?

Edited November 11, 2006 by Guard Dog

[Calax]

[other than that of a lump of flesh that could not survive on its own for twenty seconds or less.... depending upon it's state of maturity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I might also make the same argument about an infant. It too is utterly helpless on it's own. When do you think a human life becomes alive? For me, it's the moment brain activity begins which is 4 weeks after conception if I remeber correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well can it breathe and eat at four weeks? I'm saying if the sucker can't breath eat and expel waste without help of machines then it's not alive.

[Dark Moth]

[other than that of a lump of flesh that could not survive on its own for twenty seconds or less.... depending upon it's state of maturity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I might also make the same argument about an infant. It too is utterly helpless on it's own. When do you think a human life becomes alive? For me, it's the moment brain activity begins which is 4 weeks after conception if I remeber correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well can it breathe and eat at four weeks? I'm saying if the sucker can't breath eat and expel waste without help of machines then it's not alive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That, IMO, is stupid. The thing is made up of living cells for crying out loud. While it can't perform all of the functions of a living organism yet, it's still alive. Also if it weren't alive it would be impossible to kill.

other than that of a lump of flesh that could not survive on its own for twenty seconds or less.... depending upon it's state of maturity. Also if we were to outlaw abortions we'd be doing more harm than good in that people would still get abortions but from much less... reputable sources and doctors.

 

1.  I personally equate pro lifers with religions because religious groups are the top supporter of abortion bans. I've never said ANYWHERE that all prolifers were religious, or that all deeply religious people were pro lifers.

 

2.  Also, would pro lifers have a problem with the removal of a cancer tumor? after all said tumor is a heap of flesh that can or cannot be a danger to your life and could potentially become a seperate organism in the far flung future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. First you say that you equate pro lifers with religions, which is essentially saying that all pro-lifers are religious. Than you say that not all pro-lifers are religious. Please choose your wording more carefully.

 

2. That just shows you don't know what a cancer cell is. A cancer cell is a cell that has been warped in its genetic makeup and reproduces at a faster rate, and in some cases without any inhibitors. A cancer cell however never develops into a separate organism. They are not separate entities that develop into a whole, living thing, like a fetus.

Edited November 11, 2006 by Dark Moth

[Guard Dog]

well can it breathe and eat at four weeks? I'm saying if the sucker can't breath eat and expel waste without help of machines then it's not alive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fair enough, but to continue to play devils advocate here, if a woman decides to abort in the last trimester, the fetus is now fully viable and can eat and breathe unassisted in most cases. It is still legal to kill the child via abortion at that point. But if she waits another week or two, gives birth and then throws the baby out a window it becomes murder. What is the difference between the two then? Why does a late term babys life have no value when a post birth babys life does whrn they are in nearly the same state of development. Does that sound like a double standard to you?

[Guard Dog]

I know this thread is WAY off topic, but doesn't this beat the hell out of discussing what you are wearing, watching, listening to, etc, etc, etc. The threads in the Way Off Topic forum are usually not this good. Thanks to the mods for the latitude here!

[Calax]

That, IMO, is stupid.  The thing is made up of living cells for crying out loud.  While it can't perform all of the functions of a living organism yet, it's still alive.  Also if it weren't alive it would be impossible to kill.

 

2.  That just shows you don't know what a cancer cell is.  A cancer cell is a cell that has been warped in its genetic makeup and reproduces at a faster rate, and in some cases without any inhibitors.  A cancer cell however never develops into a separate organism.  They are not separate entities that develop into a whole, living thing, like a fetus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so your saying potential makes the beasty? because your yelling about the fact your killing living cells but when you remove a cancerous tumor your killing living cells...

 

if we're working purly off potential we better put enviromental protections on those sewers so that thriving bacterial ecosystems can evolve and replace us as the domonint life form on the planet.

 

And I have never been good at english or the written version of it.

[Lucius]

Well, just one poster, actually.  Most posters here actually tend to be more respectful and restrained than that.  Even still, insults like that don't affect me in the least.  They actually prompt me only to laugh at the poster who sinks to such childish levels.  Looking back, I probably could have reported him, but I decided not too.  ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I am trying to be more restrained in my own comments. I really don't want to offend anybody here with my ranting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was referring to Lucius, not you. You thankfully have at least shown more restraint when it comes to these things.

 

BTW Calax, there is no way you can say that anti-abortion is a religious doctrine in anyway. Frankly I think it's silly myself to equate that with Christianity. You don't need to be Christian to be pro-life, many people just associate the two. You don't have to be religious to value life or to be offended by someone killing their baby. The only thing that you could completely tie with religion is ID and to a lesser extent, a ban on gay marriage.

 

Well, religion in school is fine, but it belongs in religion class. That's how it is here, and thank ****ing hippie christ for that, I've never ever heard a word about this creationism nonsense in all the years I had biology for instance.  :joy:

 

Oh and seriously, do kids in the US public schools have to say this pledge every goddamn morning? 

 

Oh and it was actually bible freak and jesus boy, get your insults straight!  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, color me corrected. " No, I haven't reported you yet, even though the many of your posts in this thread could qualify as racism or bigotry. One more time though, one more insult like "Jesus Freak", and you most certainly will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So Christians are a race now, how mighty and proud you folks must feel! Seriously though, I'm only after you because you, like that scum of a man Santorum whom you seem to like (how very unsurprising), thinks that we're "wrong" and equates being gay to child abusers. (or as you once put it, mutants)

So really, stop crying. You're the ****ing majority, I'm the minority, you're the ****ing bigot.

 

And if getting warned again or even banned bacause I showed my utter contempt of one such as you, then I'll ****ing welcome it, you sonofabitch.

[Sand]

[other than that of a lump of flesh that could not survive on its own for twenty seconds or less.... depending upon it's state of maturity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I might also make the same argument about an infant. It too is utterly helpless on it's own. When do you think a human life becomes alive? For me, it's the moment brain activity begins which is 4 weeks after conception if I remeber correctly. But you never answered my original question. Outside of religous teachings, does human life have value?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

For me, Human life begins when the baby is mature/developed enough in its cognitive process to realize that it exists and reacts to objects and stimuli with more thought than simple basic instinct of an animal.

[Dark Moth]

Well, color me corrected.  "  No, I haven't reported you yet, even though the many of your posts in this thread could qualify as racism or bigotry.  One more time though, one more insult like "Jesus Freak", and you most certainly will. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So Christians are a race now, how mighty and proud you folks must feel! Seriously though, I'm only after you because you, like that scum of a man Santorum whom you seem to like (how very unsurprising), thinks that we're "wrong" and equates being gay to child abusers. (or as you once put it, mutants)

So really, stop crying. You're the ****ing majority, I'm the minority, you're the ****ing bigot.

 

And if getting warned again or even banned bacause I showed my utter contempt of one such as you, then I'll ****ing welcome it, you sonofabitch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Showing contempt for a person based on his or her religion can be considered racism or bigotry, yes. :D Also I never equated you with being child abusers or mutants in the sense that you're implying. I never have judged you on the content of your character on the basis of your sexual orientation, Lucius. And no, I'm not crying. More like getting a little bored with your constant attempts at insults and boorishness. Look, if you don't like me, fine, but don't spam up the thread with your childish insults. If you don't want to respond to PM's, fine, but don't fill up the thread with your responses and act like you're making a statement. I'll say it one more time: if you have something useful to contribute to this discussion, by all means, do. If not, then just get out, and maybe stop being such a baby while you're at it. Otherwise I most certainly will report you (even though I probably should have done it after that comment).

Edited November 11, 2006 by Dark Moth

[Guard Dog]

That was totally out of line Lucius.

[Dark Moth]

For me, Human life begins when the baby is mature/developed enough in its cognitive process to realize that it exists and reacts to objects and stimuli with more thought than simple basic instinct of an animal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For you, you mean. That does not make it so, so don't act like it. Even still, that does not make its life worthless, though you seem to think such. Tell you what, I have an idea. Since that's what you think, let's just go ahead and start killing off all lower forms of animal life, like invertebrates. After all, they don't have a life, do they? While we're at it, let's not worry anymore about cutting down trees. After all, they aren't thinking beings like you and I. Right? That makes it okay.

[Sand]

Lucius, you are indeed out of line. Man, and I thought I was bad. Sheesh. :crazy:

[Sand]

For me, Human life begins when the baby is mature/developed enough in its cognitive process to realize that it exists and reacts to objects and stimuli with more thought than simple basic instinct of an animal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For you, you mean. That does not make it so, so don't act like it. Even still, that does not make its life worthless, though you seem to think such. Tell you what, I have an idea. Since that's what you think, let's just go ahead and start killing off all lower forms of animal life, like invertebrates. After all, they don't have a life, do they? While we're at it, let's not worry anymore about cutting down trees. After all, they aren't thinking beings like you and I. Right? That makes it okay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is why I started with "For me" in my post.

 

Also I don't think its life is worthless but they shouldn't be placed on a pedestal like some religious types do. I just don't see a problem with embryonic stem cell research and I don't see it as "killing" babies. Trees aren't self aware. Don't go to the extremes, Dark Moth, it makes you look silly.