Volourn's Wowwy Journey With NWN2:Spoiler Edition

[roshan]

I just got to the 3rd level of the orc cave where you find the real emissary.

 

I found a vein of ore here but I cant get any XP for finding it. Has anyone else had this problem?

 

Also, is this actually the 4th vein of ore or have I missed some along the way?

[Volourn]

Yeah, I had one vien of ore that did that to me. I'm not sure where it was; but it could have been the orc cave.

 

 

"don't agree with that. there are story reasons to do so. even in movies you see many situations of the sort "joeschmoe adventurama is going with you as a guide. you'll have to learn to like him for the trip." as long as you have an option to boot said NPC after his "role" is completed, i don't mind it."

 

A well m ade role-playing agme would give you options. You shouldn't have to rely on one specifc being. Plus, in NWN2, you can *never* kick them out of your group. They're stuck to you like glue. Heck, the game flkat out gives you a bogus chocie when you meet Khelgar Neeshka. It's a joke!

 

As for Bishop, I'm sure there could have been anotyher ranger/scout who could have helped you follow the kidnappers; but R00fles!

Edited November 10, 2006 by Volourn

[Spider]

i'm gonna keep bishop next run, btw.  he's killer with a bow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He would be even better if he actually got the ranged ranger path instead of the dual wield one. This is a bug, by the way. He is tagged in the game as being a ranged ranger, but for some reason he still gets the other package.

 

Edit: As for the ore, there are a few ore veins that don't work properly. I think I encountered three or so throughout the game.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Spider

[taks]

Plus, in NWN2, you can *never* kick them out of your group. They're stuck to you like glue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, not really. it is really not much different than when they go back to the merc store in NWN1. the difference is that you don't have to strike up a conversation to bring them back along. they are still sort of "part of the group" w.r.t. story and all that, but only when you're back at the inn.

 

taks

[Volourn]

No, it's completely different. NWN1 OC (though the npcs aren't as well done as NWN2's), like any good nRPG, doens't force you to ahve companions. The NPCs in NWN2 are forced on you. This is undisputable, and it's poor writing if that's the only way they could manage the writing. And, for most of them it's not needed. Take the exmaples of Neeshka and KJhelgar. Ort the silly bard which adds NOTHING to the story (at least thus far).

 

It's lame. And, they are part of the group. This is evidenced by the fact that they are fromt ime to time force dback into your group destroying your dynamics. Not to mention, the runours I've ehard that later on you'll have as many of 8 of them in yoru adventuring party aa time.

 

It's lame, and its indefensible. It was weak in the KOTORs. It was weak in JE. It is weak in NWN2.

 

The NWN1 OC npcs (aka mercs0 are NOT always part of the groupo. They ojnly join if you want them too. They arne't forced on you. Heck, only one of em even forces a convo on you, and that convbo is perfectly logical (the rogue tries to get you to hire him at the start of the first chapter as you leave the temple of tyr for the first time).

 

 

Defend this POOR design decision all you want. There is absolutely no need for it, and adds NOTHING to the game. In fact, it only serves to annoy players as how many times does one read someone post,"I wish I could get rid of x NPC; I ahte him or her!". That says it all.

 

Game over.

[taks]

No, it's completely different. NWN1 OC (though the npcs aren't as well done as NWN2's), like any good nRPG, doens't force you to ahve companions. The NPCs in NWN2 are forced on you. This is undisputable, and it's poor writing if that's the only way they could manage the writing.

i didn't say there weren't forced on you. you said "Plus, in NWN2, you can *never* kick them out of your group."

 

this is just plain not true. as soon as you go back to the inn, you can boot them. period.

 

Not to mention, the runours I've ehard that later on you'll have as many of 8 of them in yoru adventuring party aa time.

well, yes and no. there is a section, all within one building, where some guards along with the guy you are guarding are added, but you can't control them (other than commands) and they are part of the group battle that ensues.

 

Defend this POOR design decision all you want. There is absolutely no need for it, and adds NOTHING to the game. In fact, it only serves to annoy players as how many times does one read someone post,"I wish I could get rid of x NPC; I ahte him or her!". That says it all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you say tomato i say tomahto. i don't mind it. oh well.

 

taks

Edited November 10, 2006 by taks

[alanschu]

Defend this POOR design decision all you want. There is absolutely no need for it, and adds NOTHING to the game. In fact, it only serves to annoy players as how many times does one read someone post,"I wish I could get rid of x NPC; I ahte him or her!". That says it all.

 

 

Poor Volo. You should know that it's not uncommon for people to not bother commenting on things they like. It's the stuff that pisses people off that makes them vocal. This is undisputable.

Edited November 10, 2006 by alanschu

[Volourn]

Hard to argue role-playing with FAKE role-players. Ah well. *shrug*

 

Stil, no evidence has been brought up thon how this 'fewature' adds anything to the game that the other method precludes. Not surprising since there is none.

 

R00fles!

Edited November 10, 2006 by Volourn

[taks]

one poor design decision i wasn't thrilled with, btw, was the glow stone thingy. the goblins are nice to you, so you should at least be given an option to steal the stone without having to "run for your lives" or kill them all (you aren't really running for your lives at that point since the battle would be over with one fireball).

 

taks

[taks]

of course, you could always kill the dryad, but i didn't want to do that, either.

 

taks

[Volourn]

Eh? That was a smart decsion. Yeah, the gobs are gonna allow you to steal the 'source of their power'. They even warn you a couple of time what would happen if you tried such a silly thing.

 

P.S. The dryad *deserves* to be killed espicially if you are good. Even Elanee supports that decision. She helped wipe out an entire village. The dryad has gone psychotic.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Volourn

[Volourn]

Nope. If youc an gather a billion people who whoelheartedly support ANY design decision; I wouldn't argue anymore about it. Then again, you are exactly the same way. I have NEVER seen you admit you werre wrong unless someone dragged you kickinga nd screaming with flat out facts.

 

 

Good luck!

Edited November 10, 2006 by Volourn

[alanschu]

Hard to argue role-playing with FAKE role-players. Ah well. *shrug*

 

What?

[taks]

Eh? That was a smart decsion. Yeah, the gobs are gonna allow you to steal the 'source of their power'.  They even warn you a couple of time what would happen if you tried such a silly thing.

i realize that. but i would have liked the stealth operation with neeshka in stealth mode.

 

P.S. The dryad *deserves* to be killed espicially if you are good. Even Elanee supports that decision. She helped wipe out an entire village. The dryad has gone psychotic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wasn't in a judge/jury/executioner mode at the time...

 

taks

[Volourn]

1. I cna see the option; but no matter how sneaky you are; it's kind ahard to steal something on a pedestal when you got half a dozen goblins staring right at it. I think they'd notice it. But, I guess they could give you at least a chance to though like possible major negatives to your hiding rolls.

 

2. Ahh.. I din't want to attack; but she gave me no choice as I wans't gonna steal from the innocent goblins.

 

 

P.S. Nice. Alanshu is in such a hurry to tyr to 'one up'; he's erasing posts so it looks like I'm a lame double poster. Whatever, punk. LOL

Edited November 10, 2006 by Volourn

[taks]

Stil, no evidence has been brought up thon how this 'fewature' adds anything to the game that the other method precludes.

it advances the story. these players are central to the story, for one reason or another, and their presence advances it. i've already mentioned even similar scenarios in movies. aren't certain characters in PS also "forced" on the PC?

 

Not surprising since there is none.

obviously not to you.

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

indeed.

 

taks

[alanschu]

1. I cna see the option; but no matter how sneaky you are; it's kind ahard to steal something on a pedestal when you got half a dozen goblins staring right at it. I think they'd notice it. But, I guess they could give you at least a chance to though like possible major negatives to your hiding rolls.

 

Except that this doesn't follow the logic of the D&D universe, where it's possible to "hide" in plain sight of someone. Or be hidden in the middle of a flat tarmac in the middle of the sun. Heck, you can not-so-magically disappear from the view of someone while fighting them.

[Volourn]

"it advances the story. these players are central to the story, for one reason or another, and their presence advances it"

 

Oh really? Neseshak? Khelagar? The bard? Yeha, yeah. Keep spinning. The game evengives you oiptions to side against them when you meet yet it eventually forces you to take them. That's lame. Plain, and simple.

 

And, no, a well written story doesn't need that kind of npc. To compare a RPG story to a movie is dumb. Every game writer has said time and time again just because a writer is good atw riting movies or books doens't mean they'd make a good game writer. It's not exactly the same thing. The key to writing a good role-playing game is to give the player options not force them down a certain path all the time espicially in regards to joinable npcs.

 

You trying to compare games to movies is funny and opposes most everything game writers have suggested.

 

 

Alanshu: Does Neeshka have Hide in Plain Sight? No. And, I wouldn't be surprised if the gobs had a way to detetc invisisbility. Like I said, they should have given the option to try to steal it. The gobs would still likely turn red because it likely be easy for them to deduce that you were the thief.

 

R00fles!

Edited November 10, 2006 by Volourn

[taks]

yeah... goblins are dumb, too. suddenly the glowstone would disappear, and they'd all be looking around for the culprit but unable to find him (uh, her with neeshka). you conveniently hid the rest of your party near the exit awaiting the goodies.

 

oh, and i never understood the hide in plain sight thing. maybe they need to qualify it with some sort of smoke effect in which you duck out... dunno.

 

taks

[Volourn]

The goblins aren't dumb. Even your average goblin is about as smart as your average human (lol, take that as you will _.

 

HIPS brings up a whole 'nother issue. Heh.

[taks]

You tryingt oc ompare games to movies is funny and opposes most everything game writers have suggested.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the point you missed was that forced characters are not unusual in other story-telling fora. an rpg is simply a big story that plays out before you, with most of your control. sometimes there are events that are beyond your control. sometimes you get stuck with someone you don't want to be with, but in the end, it adds to the mix.

 

taks

[Volourn]

Comparing game and movie stories is a POOR argument. Espicially since game devloeprs have argued the opposite. The skills overlap; but you need different ones to write successfully for games than you need for movies, and vice versa.

 

Movies aree completely linear, for example, games (espicially RPGs) are NOT.

[taks]

well, i shoulda said "these goblins are dumb."

 

taks

[kormesios]

Hard to argue role-playing with FAKE role-players. Ah well. *shrug*

 

Stil, no evidence has been brought up thon how this 'fewature' adds anything to the game that the other method precludes.   Not surprising since there is none.

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It adds amusing cutscenes, enables NPC-dependent plot twists, and allows the convenience of automatically collecting all possible NPCs at your base.

 

This is obviously more than "none." It may not be enough for you to make up for whatever complaint you ahve, but for a fake role-player like me it's plenty.

[kormesios]

one poor design decision i wasn't thrilled with, btw, was the glow stone thingy.  the goblins are nice to you, so you should at least be given an option to steal the stone without having to "run for your lives" or kill them all (you aren't really running for your lives at that point since the battle would be over with one fireball).

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What are you talking about? I stole it no problem. My stealthed ranger with an elven cloak walked up, took it, and walked out. No death, no combat, no fleeing.