The Pope vs. Mohammed

[Lucius]

Pop, idiot, know of what you speak before you open your mouth. The drawings that really enraged the muslim world was not made by danish artists, they were made by resident MUSLIM fundamentalists who then proceeded to tour the middle east with these newly added (and quite outrageous) drawings.

Hell, before the traitors toured the middle east, months had passed and no public outcry.

 

And really, the violent protesters who burned our embassies, on grounds of drawings made by MUSLIMS who's been blessed enough to be allowed to live here, are just confirming exactly why the current majority of Danes doesn't want more immigration.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Lucius

[Lucius]

Oh and a funny fact regarding that! One of the fundamentalists who preached hatred against us in that troubled period while on tour in the ME, was actually begging the the cruel danish government for evacuation, as he was stranded in Lebanon when Israel retaliated.

 

Of course, we, the bad guys helped out our loving citizen in need, just as any bad guy would.

[Darth Launch]

Pop, idiot, know of what you speak before you open your mouth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sweetie... you've been guilty of that on more than one occasion so why don't you start practicing what you preach and don't call people idiots for the same mistakes you make, hmm?

[Lucius]

Launchie, It's been so long since I flamed, but at least I don't flame America anymore. That's a good thing, right?

[Dark Moth]

I'm probably stating the obvious here, but I don't think this is so much a faith problem as a regional problem. If you look at past events, most of the violent protests came from the ME, from nations which still lag behind much of the western world socially and technologically. Let's face it, many of these nations and govs still live in the dark ages. Many already suspect some of the protests were staged or 'encouraged' by the corrupt governments preciding over said nations. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. But most Muslims are normal people like you and I who just want to live their lives. We didn't have that problem in the U.S., so I'd be more than willing to bet that this is a cultural issue more than anything else.

[Pop]

Wipe the froth from your mouth, "idiot". The drawings were commissioned by the Jyllands-Posten in Copenhagen.

 

com

Edited September 15, 2006 by Pop

[Lucius]

First of all, you can shove that wise ass dictionary crap.

 

Second, yes the original cartoons were drawn by danish artists, but the ones that really caused the uproar were added by the muslim traitors as they embarked on their journey to preach hatred against us. This has been all over the news here, and the fanatics in charge of the little scheme was pretty much in a ****storm when we found out. (unfortunately, they weren't deported)

 

Oh, and one of the fanatics was also cought on hidden cam saying that if the moderate muslim politician, Khader, ever made minister, they should bomb him!

Edited September 15, 2006 by Lucius

[Pop]

So it's not the papers fault for creating the toons, it's the extremists fault for using the toons the paper created.

[alanschu]

This is true. The fact of the matter, sadly, is that this stagnation can be largely attributed to the US. Our imposition of the Shah in Iran and the subsequent uprising and the reign of the Ayatollahs (and our support of anti-Iranian dictators like Saddam) is probably the single biggest reason for the instability of the region today. So it really does lead back to us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

At the same time, the region wasn't really known for being lovey dovey prior to the US involvement in Iran/Iraq.

 

If you wanted to pick something, it probably would have been better to pick the formation of Israel (though from what I gather, the area was still rather hostile before that).

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

I'm probably stating the obvious here, but I don't think this is so much a faith problem as a regional problem.  If you look at past events, most of the violent protests came from the ME, from nations which still lag behind much of the western world socially and technologically.  Let's face it, many of  these nations and govs still live in the dark ages.  Many already suspect some of the protests were staged or 'encouraged' by the corrupt governments preciding over said nations.  Whether that's true or not, I don't know.  But most Muslims are normal people like you and I who just want to live their lives.  We didn't have that problem in the U.S., so I'd be more than willing to bet that this is a cultural issue more than anything else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is both a regional and faith based problem. Regional because of the cultural differences and and environment. Faith because it gives justification for the regional problems and fuels it.

[Lucius]

So it's not the papers fault for creating the toons, it's the extremists fault for using the toons the paper created.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you really this stupid? FOR the third and final time, some of the most outrageous toons were NOT created by the paper. We are talking about pics of mohammed being mounted by a dog, mohammed with a pig face, and mohammed as a pedophile.

 

I'd say those make the original 11 seem rather harmless. Of course, you probably haven't even seen any of them.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Lucius

[Pop]

I saw them all, and yes, most of them were pretty innocuous, except for the one where he's flanked by burka-clad women and brandishing a sword. This seems to be the picture that the ME seemed to be pissed about, in particular.

 

As for the deportation of the artists, that would be hypocritical of the Danish gov't, as they refused to stop the Danish artists from releasing their illustrations on "free speech" grounds. Punishing another artist for excercising the same right isn't consistent.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Pop

[Dark Moth]

It is both a regional and faith based problem.  Regional because of the cultural differences and and environment.  Faith because it gives justification for the regional problems and fuels it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I said mostly regional.

[Lucius]

Nice dodge, not a word about the added drawings I just mentioned to you. See no evil much?

 

I'd post em here, just so you can see how nice it was of the muslim traitors to pin them on us. But that probably wouldn't be PC enough for the fora. Do PM me if you wanna see them.

 

As for deportation, they were deliberately damaging the nations reputation and ultimately its safety in their quest to stirr hatred, as guests of this land, they should've been shown the door. One of them doesn't even want to learn the language.

 

Edit: I'm sorry if I sound too harsh and unreasonable, but I'm tired and pissed off.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Lucius

[Pop]

Nice dodge, not a word about the added drawings I just mentioned to you. See no evil much?

 

I'd post em here, just so you can see how nice it was of the muslim traitors to pin them on us. But that probably wouldn't be PC enough for the fora. Do PM me if you wanna see them.

 

As for deportation, they were deliberately damaging the nations reputation and ultimately its safety in their quest to stirr hatred, as guests of this land, they should've been shown the door. One of them doesn't even want to learn the language.

 

Edit: I'm sorry if I sound too harsh and unreasonable, but I'm tired and pissed off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heh, n/p.

 

That dossier (containing the fraudelent extra images) was sent out in December. The original illustrations were published in September. The conflict should have never lasted that long. Had the gov't or the paper addressed the problem, it might never had escalated to that point. That's not saying that the **** wouldn't have hit the fan anyway. The entire thing could have been entirely avoided had the paper recognized that muslims would be affronted by the images and excercised a little caution, which was my original point. Even if the original images were harmless, they were a big "**** you" to muslims, and they opened the door to the heinous misrepresentations in the dossier.

 

The freedom of the press is important, but the press has to be responsible in turn. Especially after the first publication of the illustrations, they were continually published in several countries for no other reason than they "had the right to".

[alanschu]

The freedom of the press is important, but the press has to be responsible in turn. Especially after the first publication of the illustrations, they were continually published in several countries for no other reason than they "had the right to".

 

I'm pretty sure a good chunk of "the reason" was a bit more than merely "they had the right to," as there were definitely people saying "what were the images being shown?" among the public.

 

The thing is, once they are getting published in other countries, is there anything that Denmark could have really done about it?

Edited September 16, 2006 by alanschu

[Pop]

Not a lot, unfortunately.

 

As for other countries, Here's a general timeline (via wikipedia) of the whole deal.

[Atreides]

That's pretty low to tour the ME with extra stuff to get a reaction.

[Volourn]

"The fact of the matter, sadly, is that this stagnation can be largely attributed to the US."

 

*barf*

 

Remember, folks. Whenever soemthing bad happens the easy way to do things is blame the US.

 

Even if the event happened 1000 years ago.

 

R00fles!

 

P.S. Again, Christians, and Christianity (as well as Jews, Mormons, etc.) have their faith ridiculed ALL THE TIME yet we never see this sort of violent or over the top reactionlike we saw with the cartoons and now what the pope said (though, thankfully, it's been more peaceful).

 

P.S.S. I'm not anti Muslim. The majority of muslims are good people just like the majority of non Muslims. Sadly, their overreactions to things this dissaprove of is sadly misplaced in comaprison to other groups, and religions.

 

 

P.S.S.S. And, don't use a psychopath as ane xmaple of a Christian or other faith's overreactions, please. or one from eons ago.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Volourn

[Calax]

I'm just waiting for the pope to go senile and declare a crusade against the middle east... and then watch as all the honest to god devout christians who think that there the pope is the word of god and everything he says we must do, go and get themselves murdered with the fundementalists of Islam that cause all these stupid wars.

[Pop]

"Remember, folks. Whenever soemthing bad happens the easy way to do things is blame the US."

 

It's not an easy conclusion to come by. The US involved itself with many anti-communist regimes and conflicts all over the world during the Cold War, the most famous example of which is Vietnam. British and American intelligence agencies were very active in the Middle East during that period, and as in other parts of the world they worked to ensure that no countries would fall to communism, generally by bolstering pro-western autocratic regimes. Such was the case with Saddam and such is the case with Iran.

 

During the 1950s, Iran's parliament voted to nationalize its oil supply. President Eisenhower and the british government feared that Iran's vast oil reserves would fall into the hands of the Soviet Bloc, since the communist party was fairly influential in Iran at the time, but it wasn't fully in power. Not wanting to take any chances, the CIA staged a coup d'etat to overthrow Iran's parliamentary authority and install the Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, who was staunchly anti-communist and was willing to deal with the Western powers when it came to the oil. Thus America "raped" Iran, and caused quite a bit of anti-American sentiments. The Iranian clergy was pretty much against this, but the Shah repressed his critics, and exiled the grand ayatollah Khomeini, who later came back from exile and took over after the Shah's inevitable fall. Khomeini pretty much blamed America for the hardships his country faced, and while he was a right extremist ****, he wasn't entirely inaccurate. Khomeini created the theocracy Iran is today, which is much more repressive than the Shah ever was, and its success in keeping power has given birth to the modern Islamic fundamentalist movement, because after all, if Iran could become an Islamic theocracy, why can't the rest of the ME? Why can't the world? Their biggest obstacle would obviously be the US, because of its modernist influence as well as the bad blood we incurred during the Cold War.

 

It all goes back to American lust for what's under the ground over there.

 

bah, I'm getting off-topic.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Pop

[kirottu]

There are thousands of pictures or Mary. The whole thing became common, non special and kinda non spiritual. Which basicly totally opposite from what happened with those danish comics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are you saying? It's still Mary and it's still considered sacred. Are you actually saying what's done is okay and perfectly acceptable? That it's okay because it's common?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, well more or less. When something becomes commonplace it is just that. Higher special values dimish when you see it around every corner.

[Atreides]

I ain't buying that. Holy books are among the most printed stuff in the world and people'd get pissed if defacing went on.

[Xard]

Nowadays wars are not about manpower. It is about weapons, and western world is superior with their arsenal and high-tech

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So let me get this strait...the whole philosophy of superiority, justice and approval comes down to kindergarden rule - who's stronger has a right to bully the inferior one?...how modern and enlightning...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, I didn't mean that. Superiority in military power is one of the reasons why there isn't "muslim hordes" in borders of Europe ready to attack (though minor one, as I don't believe that most muslims want war for wars sake. My internet fella knows one and he seems to be nice guy, a modern, "western" muslim. However, most of Middle-East's population doesn't seem to be that kind of muslims. Though I say this is because of the enviroment more than religion. ).

 

Main thing I ment with that answer was that winning war is not about army sizes, it is about technology and training. You can clearly see this thing in case of Israel.

 

So idea of any country (France, USA, China, Turkey etc.) massing huge armies instead of using tactics of modern warfare is just absurd

Edited September 16, 2006 by Xard

[Xard]

:lol:

 

Where's that from?