The Pope vs. Mohammed

[Colrom]

Show me the Muslim armies invading Christian countries and destroying Christian cities and towns.

 

Show me the vast forces of a Muslim armada gathered off the coast of a Christian country about to invade.

[Dark Moth]

Chritians make fun of Mohammud to taunt and demean the Muslims.

And then they make fun of the Muslims for getting all powerlessly furious.

And then they make fun of them some more.

And blame it all on them.

Everything is their fault.

We are doing it right here.

And then we pretend to be afraid and we go and kill them.

So how different is this from what we Christians did to the Jews?

It seems the same to me.

We should be ashamed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you been living under a hole the past year, or are you making things up on purpose? First off, if you're referring to the Islamic upheave against the Danish-drawn characatures of Muhammad, those were drawn as a satire from those who probably make fun of many groups of people, even Christians, which happens here in the good ol' US as well.

 

And I don't know what you're trying to imply by the following. From the way you're saying, you make it sound as if the Muslim's behavior was justified and they're just the poor helpless victims being brutalized by the big bad west. Are you ever going to get out of this neo-hippy fantasy world of yours? This is actually very different than what the Christians did to the Jews. What they did is the ultimate form of hypocrisy, given many of those same people routinely bash Christianity and the West as being the great satan of this world. You see Christianity and Jesus being poked fun of all the time in western society, and yet no time have we ever had such a violent global reaction to such a trivial thing.

 

What they did was uncalled for and only shows how far behind much of Islamic society still is from the rest of the world. Yes, it is the Muslims' fault for reacting so violently to just a few drawings lampooning Muhammad. Yes, it is their fault for being hypocritical. No, they are not just the poor helpless victims here. And NO, the west did go out and kill the poor helpless Muslims after their reaction to the cartoons. I don't know where in the hell you pulled that from. You seem to be the kind of person who'd blame 9/11 on the west, given some of your previous statements. I hope I'm wrong on that.

 

Show me the Muslim armies invading Christian countries and destroying Christian cities and towns.

 

Show me the vast forces of a Muslim armada gathered off the coast of a Christian country about to invade.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Remember 9/11? How about 3/11 for those who live in Spain? Or 7/11 for those who live in India? Or how about the 9/11-esque plot exposed in Great Britain just recently? No, those aren't armies invading countries. But people are dying all the same. That enough for you? Or shall I post others? Or maybe it's just more acceptable for you for Americans to die instead?

Edited September 15, 2006 by Dark Moth

[Xard]

Show me the Muslim armies invading Christian countries and destroying Christian cities and towns.

 

Show me the vast forces of a Muslim armada gathered off the coast of a Christian country about to invade.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nowadays wars are not about manpower. It is about weapons, and western world is superior with their arsenal and high-tech

[Hildegard]

Nowadays wars are not about manpower. It is about weapons, and western world is superior with their arsenal and high-tech

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So let me get this strait...the whole philosophy of superiority, justice and approval comes down to kindergarden rule - who's stronger has a right to bully the inferior one?...how modern and enlightning...

Edited September 15, 2006 by Hildegard

[kirottu]

What they did was uncalled for and only shows how far behind much of Islamic society still is from the rest of the world.  Yes, it is the Muslims' fault for reacting so violently to just a few drawings lampooning Muhammad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is a sacrilege to make a picture of Muhammed. Comparing it to making picture of Jesus is just totally misguided.

[alanschu]

Show me the Muslim armies invading Christian countries and destroying Christian cities and towns.

 

Show me the vast forces of a Muslim armada gathered off the coast of a Christian country about to invade.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Meh, it used to be the thing to do back in the middle ages.

[Dark Moth]

What they did was uncalled for and only shows how far behind much of Islamic society still is from the rest of the world.  Yes, it is the Muslims' fault for reacting so violently to just a few drawings lampooning Muhammad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is a sacrilege to make a picture of Muhammed. Comparing it to making picture of Jesus is just totally misguided.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know that. Ever here of 'piss Christ'? That's sacrilege too. And yet, there still was not a violent global reaction to that.

[alanschu]

Nowadays wars are not about manpower. It is about weapons, and western world is superior with their arsenal and high-tech

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So let me get this strait...the whole philosophy of superiority, justice and approval comes down to kindergarden rule - who's stronger has a right to bully the inferior one?...how modern and enlightning...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You act like you're surprised by what you just said.

[Hildegard]

You act like you're surprised by what you just said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Really I'm not, the only thing that sometimes bothers me is that the superior one automaticley thinks he's enlightning and virtous when in fact he's primitive and raw just like the ones beaten on the ground, the so called enemies of the free world, etc.

[kirottu]

What they did was uncalled for and only shows how far behind much of Islamic society still is from the rest of the world.  Yes, it is the Muslims' fault for reacting so violently to just a few drawings lampooning Muhammad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It is a sacrilege to make a picture of Muhammed. Comparing it to making picture of Jesus is just totally misguided.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know that. Ever heard of 'piss Christ'? That's sacrilege too. And yet, there still was not a violent global reaction to that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, I haven

[alanschu]

Well, I've seen my share of "Jesus saves....Gretzky gets the rebound and scores!" type stuff around.

[Gfted1]

No, I haven

[kirottu]

No, I haven

[Colrom]

The problem is that when the Pope provides a characterization of Muslims as violent it is entirely predictable that that will be taken as a partial rationalization for violent action against Muslim nations, institutions, and people by many Catholics and other Christians.

 

I imagine it is a very scarry thing for Muslims to hear the Pope say things about Islam that may inspire some Christians to think that killing Muslims might be good.

 

I can see how Muslims would protest.

 

What the Pope said has no good outcome and he ought to have known that. I am very disappointed in his leadership.

 

This situation is completely different than the Mohammad cartoons. Those were done by little people who wanted to feel powerful who taunted and mocked Muslims to make them angry. I think it amused them to see the Muslims protesting and to watch the Muslim protests be dismissed as just more evidence of Muslim insanity. It was typical bully work.

 

The Pope is a different matter. He is a powerful person. And this was not mockery. This was was damnation. His was the kind of speach that has proceeded Crusades in the past.

 

I am sure the Muslims wonder where this will go now.

 

And I do too.

[alanschu]

This situation is completely different than the Mohammad cartoons. Those were done by little people who wanted to feel powerful who taunted and mocked Muslims to make them angry.

 

Yes, I am sure that that is exactly what the artists were thinking.

[Dark Moth]

There are thousands of pictures or Mary. The whole thing became common, non special and kinda non spiritual. Which basicly totally opposite from what happened with those danish comics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What are you saying? It's still Mary and it's still considered sacred. Are you actually saying what's done is okay and perfectly acceptable? That it's okay because it's common?

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

The only reason why Mary is considered sacred is because the Christian Church used Mary to replace the pagan goddess Diana when converting those who venerated her. Why else make Jesus = God, or the Son of God. To replace pagan religions and myths centered on half gods like Hercules.

Edited September 15, 2006 by 6 Foot Invisible Rabbit

[Pop]

"Many Christians were enraged by this yet not one building burned down. Wierd that."

 

Are you making the point I think you're making with that statement, and if so, are you retarded?

 

"Really I'm not, the only thing that sometimes bothers me is that the superior one automaticley thinks he's enlightning and virtous when in fact he's primitive and raw just like the ones beaten on the ground, the so called enemies of the free world, etc."

 

But is this inextricably linked to organized religion, christianity, islam, etc. as is the general gist of some of the arguments I've read? I don't think it is. Communist China were just as savage in their zeal to be a completely atheist state.

 

"Nowadays wars are not about manpower. It is about weapons, and western world is superior with their arsenal and high-tech"

 

Donald Rumsfeld thought the same thing, and he's losing his war. Bombs don't win wars, unless you're using nuclear bombs, which is psychotic.

 

why does everyone here believe the violent reactions to the Danish comics to be indicative of the greater muslim faith? Why are people here willing to make value judgements about a religion while dismissing their tenets?

Edited September 15, 2006 by Pop

[alanschu]

why does everyone here believe the violent reactions to the Danish comics to be indicative of the greater muslim faith? Why are people here willing to make value judgements about a religion while dismissing their tenets?

 

Because if you disagree with something (say, religion in general), people like to talk about the negative things about it as it will reaffirm why they don't like it.

[Dark Moth]

The only reason why Mary is considered sacred is because the Christian Church used Mary to replace the pagan goddess Diana when converting those who venerated her.  Why else make Jesus = God, or the Son of God.  To replace pagan religions and myths centered on half gods like Hercules.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who are you? Anyway, that's only partly true.

[alanschu]

The rabbit is Hades' alt.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

Yes partly true but every myth and legend has a small truth to them, regardless of origin.

 

Um... Who's Hades?

[Dark Moth]

The rabbit is Hades' alt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahem. *points to sig*

 

Yes partly true but every myth and legend has a small truth to them, regardless of origin.

 

Um...  Who's Hades? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wait, back up. What are you trying to say? You just said that was the only reason, then say it's only partly true. Which is it?

 

No one important. Just a really annoying guy from Ames, Iowa.

[Pop]

why does everyone here believe the violent reactions to the Danish comics to be indicative of the greater muslim faith? Why are people here willing to make value judgements about a religion while dismissing their tenets?

 

Because if you disagree with something (say, religion in general), people like to talk about the negative things about it as it will reaffirm why they don't like it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It doesn't necessarily follow that these kinds of conflicts would cease to exist if religion is taken out of the picture. Man is not evil because of religion, religion is evil because of man.

 

Colrom has good points. The Pope no longer has the credibility most people seem to assume he has. The Pope is not Christianity. His brand of strict thomism isn't held anywhere outside Vatican City. Besides, Ratzinger is a tremendous ****, even as popes go.

 

"Yes, I am sure that that is exactly what the artists were thinking."

 

It was, actually. The cartoons continued to be printed after peaceful protests and being asked to stop. That's when the violence started. The publishers had the opportunity to stop it, any sane person could have seen what was going to happen, and yet they didn't. Free speech one, Danes zero.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Pop

[alanschu]

Well, in the initial article they commented why they invited the artists to draw Muhammed.

 

 

EDIT:

 

It doesn't necessarily follow that these kinds of conflicts would cease to exist if religion is taken out of the picture. Man is not evil because of religion, religion is evil because of man.

 

And I never said anything of the sort. YOu asked:

 

Why are people here willing to make value judgements about a religion while dismissing their tenets?

 

And I answered it.

Edited September 15, 2006 by alanschu