Unkillable enemies discussion

[Judge Hades]

[alanschu]

If something is attacking you, regardless if you can kill it or not, it is a combat situation.

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Go go absolutism!

 

Referring to the idea of taking an absolute definition of something, rather than the governmental scheme made popular by Louis XIV.

[Judge Hades]

If someone was trying to kill you would you call it combat or go "Oh, this must be a puzzle. Now, how do I dodge that bullet? Ah, a limerick should do the trick!"

 

[alanschu]

I've played many games where killing a creature that attacks me involves a puzzle.

 

Heck, even a game like Quake required it for the end guy of the first act.

[Judge Hades]

That should just tell you that very few game developers have actually been in real combat situations.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Slowtrain]

That should just tell you that very few game developers have actually been in real combat situations.

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I think that those devs who choose to visit their own message boards have seen plenty of combat!

[Lare Kikkeli]

That should just tell you that very few game developers have actually been in real combat situations.

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i'd say very few have fought a werewolf in general.

[Judge Hades]

Obviously I need to explain that when I mean real combat I mean that the person is going against a real opponent that is trying to kill him or her.

[Lare Kikkeli]

and how does experience like that apply when trying to simulate combat against a vampire? or a werewolf?

[alanschu]

That should just tell you that very few game developers have actually been in real combat situations.

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What the hell does "real combat situations" have to do with anything?

 

It's a video game! I'm pretty sure that id Software had to make some suppositions with the Quake boss, since they hadn't ever fought a demon in a pit of lava that throws fireballs at you. I'm quite certain that "real combat situation" experiences wouldn't help much when fighting a fictional werewolf.

[Judge Hades]

Lare, get into a situation in which your life is threatened and you will see.

[Slowtrain]

since they hadn't ever fought a demon in a pit of lava that throws fireballs at you. 

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I feel so foolish now. :">

[alanschu]

I'm also pretty sure that real combat situations don't involve people moving one at a time, waiting for everyone else to stop moving and stand still while opponents shoot at them.

[Judge Hades]

What the hell does "real combat situations" have to do with anything?

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It give you a basis to work from. In a full blown fire fight and intense combat situation when a person's life is at stake will go out an d about thinking that this is some sort of puzzle. It isn't. You have two options. Fight or flight. That is it. In most cases a person will not be thinking all that clearly either so trying to put a puzzle in the middle of combat is stupid in a poor design gimmick.

[Llyranor]

Hades is right. If it were real-life, I would have benchpressed that werewolf, like I could any of you dorks.

[Judge Hades]

I'm also pretty sure that real combat situations don't involve people moving one at a time, waiting for everyone else to stop moving and stand still while opponents shoot at them.

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Gee, when did Bloodlines or Quake become turn based?

 

You know, you guys simply do not get it because instead of seeing it through the eyes of your character you are seeing it through the eyes of the player. I am through with this argument.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Judge Hades

[alanschu]

Actually, "real combat situations" at one point did involve invulnerable targets.

 

They were called castles and city walls.

 

In response, they generals on the other side said "Hmmm, this is a puzzle!" And they built siege weapons.

[alanschu]

I'm also pretty sure that real combat situations don't involve people moving one at a time, waiting for everyone else to stop moving and stand still while opponents shoot at them.

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Gee, when did Bllodlines or Quake become turn based?

 

You know, you guys simply do not get it because instead of seeing it through the eyes of your character you are seeing it through the eyes of the player. I am through with this argument.

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The same time they involved "real combat situations."

 

 

You know, you guys simply do not get it because instead of seeing it through the eyes of your character you are seeing it through the eyes of the player. I am through with this argument.

 

What are you talking about? Seeing it through the eyes of the player would have resulted in you not trying to attack the werewolf, based on Nines telling you it was futile. Or, if you did, you died. Instead you opted to metagame based on your previous experience with the rules.

Edited September 8, 2006 by alanschu

[Nick_i_am]

Computer games vs real life? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Llyranor]

Shut up before I benchpress your face, Nick.

[Nick_i_am]

All i'm saying is that applying logic to computer games is silly.

 

SILLY

 

haha, I don't have a face.

 

I meant, a bench. I don't have a bench face, youre the one with the bench face, and i'm going to press your sister, rawr, with warewolves.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Nick_i_am

[Hassat Hunter]

@ Hades; play some other videogames.

It is pretty common throughout games using first person perspective.

 

Usually it is done for VARIATION; as mindless shooting everything can be fun; if it is all you do (even in a game promoted for that) it bores quickly.

 

Bring in the levelbosses!

[Llyranor]

The ideal solution, of course, is to provide options. Allowing for environmental puzzles all while making the enemies defeatable - though at a challenge level where it wouldn't make a difference to Hades whether they were invincible or not.

[Slowtrain]

@ Hades; play some other videogames.

It is pretty common throughout games using first person perspective.

 

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Well, paralleling the consequence debate in the Oblivion thread, just because it is done a lot (or not done a lot, as the case may be) doesn't make it good (or bad). Its really more of a personal preference issue.

 

I don't mind puzzles that are straightforward. Such as fixing the water pump in Fallout (which is also a minor consequence action as well, woohoo!). That's the type of puzzle I like. It makes sense to me. Puzzles that are resolved through some essentially illogical or extremely esoteric sequence of action(s), cause me to experience both anger and boredom in the same moment. WHich is a weird sensation, too.

[Llyranor]

Maybe that's why the adventure genre died out