Really bad sign for games coming from Atari

[greylord]

I think Atari is using a new copy protection scheme...and its a BAD one. I mean REALLY bad, like prevent legit users (what's new there...but I've always been able to somehow get their games working...this one absolutely requires you to hack the game to get past) from running the game...period...

 

Put a longer post in the NWN2 forums for a heads up for the makers there (I think it's Atari slapping on CD protections without seeing how compatible they are with the programs and different CD/DVD readers which is causing the problem, they need some bughunting AFTER they slap on this CD protection stuff I believe).

 

Runs on some computers (normally has to be a pretty recent drive as opposed to anything over 6 months to a year it seems from the various computers I've tried these tests out on, and testing shows only one anomaly, it's always the Atari Games, and normally their protections that are the disabling feature, and yes, these are store bought games, so no hacked games and no pirated games...ALL legit (I don't pirate and don't believe in pirating, and wouldn't bring up bug reports relating to it since those are bound to be bug bound by the ones who hack them in the first place).

 

Just a heads up here, not just for NWN2, but any atari game released in the past month or two...you're taking a chance. It could run great (I've had computers that ran their games superbly), but it might also run it really badly (I've had it try to disable my video card...literally, and it suceeded, my drivers were beaten up by their protection...that's some protection let me add...not my type...more like a virus I'd think). So buyer beware...and if you do, hopefully you get lucky instead of unlucky.

[Tigranes]

What is the name of this copy protection, if it has one? Is Atari the only big company that uses them?

[Darque]

So... let me see if I understand something...

 

You "think" Atari is using a copyprotection...

 

And you "think" it's a bad one....

 

[Judge Hades]

Concrete evidence would go a long ways, greylord.

[Hurlshort]

Hmm, I never copy games or try and run copied games, and I've never had copyright protection issues. I did have some trouble running a game because of Starforce, but honestly it wasn't that hard to get the game fixed. Whining about copy protection is so last year.

[greylord]

Sorry, bioware is running a coverup in their forums it appears, they promptly deleted my post. (edit: Found out it's not a coverup, they are actually just reviewing my post since I stated the only way that I've found assured of making it so that the virustype stuff isn't running, which unfortunately involves some program manipulation of the Game...which is understandable considering their policies. That post WAS almost strictly for a heads up for them...this is a backup for that, as well as a heads up for forum goers here on these problems in general seeing this is a general forum).

 

Concrete evidence. I can't really provide that here unless some of you want to experience it. I wouldn't suggest it.

 

Here are some games NOT to use would be in the Act of War:High Treason expansion timefram (so starting around the May time period to at least the June time period, maybe they've changed it since then. No problems with Storm Reach however, but that was released prior to the other two).

 

First time installing the game, I try to run it, it asks to unblock for the firewall...easy enough. It then request unblocking again...and again...and again...and finally disables the vid drivers for the video card. Then NOTHING will run.

 

However, of course, that MIGHT not be the games fault, perhaps something with the computer...right?

 

So then it's isolation time. At the same time of installing these would be Rise and Fall, civilizations at war, DarkStar One (which was actually More of the game I would expect to have tech problems with than atari games), and Galactic Civliations. Reinstall basic OS to have completely clean installs for these new games...once again, do the Atari games...same result. However, doing it with all the other games the result cannot be duplicated (which doesn't bother me much since it ALWAYS happened right after Atari game installs).

 

Now I personally was pissed at this point...I don't like ANYONE thinking they can disable my videocards...but I'll continue.

 

So when I restart the systems however, and get everything running, if I uninstall the atari games, my drivers actually work....interestingly enough, with no problems. So then it's narrowed down to if the Atari games are installed and then run = disabled video drivers. If they are uninstalled, video drivers = work.

 

Which seems odd.

 

And it's ONLY atari games...as I said, all the others work fine. Then we try the next step...different what happens if someone takes away the copy protections, since it seems to happen at the beginning of the games...

 

Well, not that I would do something like that...but when somebody does do that...surprisingly NO problems with the video drivers, no problems with the games...they actually ran nicely.

 

Which pretty much at that point narrowed it pretty well down to the cause.

 

However, we retried it on several computers includinng, and sorry, most of my computers that meet the reqs are Nvidia machines...

 

Nvidia 6100, 6200, 6600, 7300 go, and 7600.

 

The problems arose with the 7600, and all the 6000 series. The 7300 go for some reason ran it well enough. No apparant problems. I think it could be the DVD player, since that is a brand new computer less then a month old.

 

The others have DVD players ranging from 6 months and older up to 3 years of age.

 

Results typically were the same on all of them.

 

Atari games that I installed recently that had no problem (but these ARE older games were D&D games such as Stormreach, as well as UT2004, Act of WAr: High Treason (the AoW expansion) both seemed to have similar problems.

Edited September 9, 2006 by greylord

[alanschu]

Sorry, bioware is running a coverup in their forums it appears, they promptly deleted my post.

 

Or perhaps they aren't letting you post slander on their forum.

 

 

EDIT: I guess it'd technically be libel.

Edited September 9, 2006 by alanschu

[greylord]

Hmm, I never copy games or try and run copied games, and I've never had copyright protection issues.  I did have some trouble running a game because of Starforce, but honestly it wasn't that hard to get the game fixed.  Whining about copy protection is so last year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never copy games either, so that's a moot point. This is ALL with legit copies. I do have it on knowledge from Tech support however that the pirated copies work much better...IRONICALLY...wonder how that freaking happened.

 

This IS worse than Starforce by a longshot (who knows, maybe it's an upgraded form, I don't know what the copy protection they are using is called, I just know it's results).

[greylord]

Sorry, bioware is running a coverup in their forums it appears, they promptly deleted my post.

 

Or perhaps they aren't letting you post slander on their forum.

 

 

EDIT: I guess it'd technically be libel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, it's not slander at Bioware or Obsidian, this is a heads up so they know what's coming down from atari.

 

The only one's who might take it as slander would be atari, and they've had three months to try to clear up these things...

 

That's forever in gaming time...

 

It's serious enough that it's not going to matter how good NWN2 is if half the people can't play it, or even worse, experience a disabling of their video cards...

 

I personally am a big fan of the Bioware and BlackIsle/Obsidian games...and have just about all their games, well the ones for PC (I don't have an XBox and probably won't get them, so I don't have any of their games for the Xbox). Part of this is inspired because I want to actually NOT have to deal with this problem with the NWN2 release, as well as part of it is actual respect for their companies enough that I think they could actually DO something and MIGHT actually do something about it (they have in the past) if they were made aware of this.

[alanschu]

Okay, since your previous post was rather opaque with respect to which Atari games, tell me which Atari games.

 

 

 

Well, it's not slander at Bioware or Obsidian, this is a heads up so they know what's coming down from atari.

 

Where would both these companies be without you!

Edited September 9, 2006 by alanschu

[greylord]

Okay, since your previous post was rather opaque with respect to which Atari games, tell me which Atari games.

 

 

 

Well, it's not slander at Bioware or Obsidian, this is a heads up so they know what's coming down from atari.

 

Where would both these companies be without you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I listed the BIGGEST culprits in the long post above, as well as ones that didn't have any problems that I've installed recently.

[alanschu]

I listed the BIGGEST culprits in the long post above, as well as ones that didn't have any problems that I've installed recently.

 

 

You listed the culprits in a super awesome clear sentence like this:

 

Atari games that I installed recently that had no problem (but these ARE older games were D&D games such as Stormreach, as well as UT2004, Timeshift, and Act of WAr: High Treason (the AoW expansion) both seemed to have similar problems.

 

You'll forgive me, but this sentence starts off saying that games such as Stormreach, UT2004, Timeshift, and AOW: High treason have no problems (read the sentence carefully). Hence my confusion.

 

Hence why your statement was obscure, since you seemed to be contradicting yourself at times. Since you know the games, this is an easy thing, just give me a list of the games. No other comments. So it would look like this:

 

Game 1

Game 2

Game 3

.

.

.

 

Is it just AOW: High Treason and Timeshift? I would think yes, but your last statement confused me.

Edited September 9, 2006 by alanschu

[greylord]

I listed the BIGGEST culprits in the long post above, as well as ones that didn't have any problems that I've installed recently.

 

 

You listed the culprits in a super awesome clear sentence like this:

 

Atari games that I installed recently that had no problem (but these ARE older games were D&D games such as Stormreach, as well as UT2004, Timeshift, and Act of WAr: High Treason (the AoW expansion) both seemed to have similar problems.

 

You'll forgive me, but this sentence starts off saying that games such as Stormreach, UT2004, Timeshift, and AOW: High treason have no problems (read the sentence carefully). Hence my confusion.

 

Hence why your statement was obscure, since you seemed to be contradicting yourself at times. Since you know the games, this is an easy thing, just give me a list of the games. No other comments. So it would look like this:

 

Game 1

Game 2

Game 3

.

.

.

 

Is it just AOW: High Treason and Timeshift? I would think yes, but your last statement confused me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Act of War I should add is the biggest culprit and the biggest one that I've actually confirmed the problems with directly...I only have so much time for the Testing that Atari should probably do. Two weeks of testing time is actually a LOT of time for me. I suspect it is with others...but I can't confirm anything with them as I haven't tested them...and after the time spent, am pretty TIRED of testing things with Atari...but I'm not going to say directly that it's in games that I don't know positively...so as I said, this is a heads up...buyer beware with anything after the May timeframe of this year...with newer stuff it appears you probably won't have any problems, but no guarantees.

 

Also, as I indicated in my longer post, this IS with Nvidia cards...don't know results of what would happen with Ati Cards.

Edited September 9, 2006 by greylord

[Deraldin]

Not sure just what you are saying here but I can tell you that Act of War: High Treason uses Securom. I haven't had any problem with it.

[Llyranor]

I don't recall having any problems with past games using Securom.

[alanschu]

Who are you? Just a gamer/enthusiast? Because you have made references to a "we" in your posts. Who is "we?" You also indicate that you have connections with technical support, since you knew that pirated copies of these games do not suffer from these problems. Who's tech support?

[alanschu]

I haven't had any problems with Securom historically either.

[greylord]

Not sure just what you are saying here but I can tell you that Act of War: High Treason uses Securom. I haven't had any problem with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, with the 7300 go computer it ran smoothly, no problems, I'm not certain what differentiated it and the others except for newness perhaps? (edit:That's why I'm thinking it's dependant on how new your DVD/CD reader is, and what brand, what drivers...etc. that marks this junk up). It's not the card since the 7600 I was pretty certain was the better card. All of the computers had a gig of RAM (well, actually on the first go the 6200 and 6600 had 512, but then upgraded to 1 gig in the past two weeks...just to be sure).

 

That's one bad mofo of a securom.

 

High Treason IS pretty good when you get it to run...on another note. I know some were disappointed with it, especially with naval unit control, but perhaps I'm just easy to please or something.

Edited September 9, 2006 by greylord

[alanschu]

Did you check this out?

[greylord]

Did you check this out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

NO offense...but that's like...duh...

 

Yes...seeing AoW:HT isn't even available in the areas around here, I actually found out about it by browsing those forums...and they were my first stop in seeing if there were any real solutions to the problems I was having (for more than just AoW:HT) weeks ago.

 

But thanks for the nice suggestion...

[Deraldin]

Did you check this out?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

NO offense...but that's like...duh...

 

Yes...seeing AoW:HT isn't even available in the areas around here, I actually found out about it by browsing those forums...and they were my first stop in seeing if there were any real solutions to the problems I was having (for more than just AoW:HT) weeks ago.

 

But thanks for the nice suggestion...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Could you summarise just what exactly is the problem. I'm not sure I understand what you were saying earlier.

[alanschu]

Where'd you get High Treason then?

 

I posted that link because the problem people seem to be having on the forum (as I looked around), was the Install Shield issue.

Edited September 9, 2006 by alanschu

[greylord]

Act of War, which I should modify is the biggest and driving force on this entire issue (talk about lack of support trying to get answers as well, when trying to figure out the answer to this thing), was actually gotten via Amazon. It wasnt' at any of the shops, so the only way I COULD seem to get it was online.

 

AoW:HT is the one that I've done the testing with the CD protection overall, and the one I'm most positive on for one reason. Act of War itself ran flawlessly. The expansion doesn't seem to have added anything really that would have required any stronger graphics or anything else that I could tell...

 

The other games, and probably the Demos specified by me, could be anything...some of them probably AREN'T protections now that I think about it. AoW IS the biggest culprit, now that we narrow it down and specify.

 

So if you want to biggest and most researched item in this it IS AoW:HT. I suppose I could look into the SecuRom issues to see what exactly is causing this...

 

I'm normally don't get into actually hacking Security items though so that's not what I'm into.

 

The patch didn't make a difference.

 

Installation was no problem...it was the actual running the game (which actully wasn't too much of a problem right up until it informed me that the video drivers were suddenly not working...that was annoying...every time it happened, even expecting it didn't make it any better).

 

There IS one other thing that I have to admit I haven't checked out...it could be the brand of DVD reader I'm using...now that I think of it. Three of the computers have the same brand of DVD reader (not the same one, but the same brand I believe, all the 6000 series). I actually narrowed it down to the CD protection last week, but spent the rest of the time since then either working, or switching between playing Dark Star One or Lionheart (yes, I know, old game, but I think I posted last week, I got it for $5 soooo.)

 

Once narrowed that it had to do with the CD protection, and seeing what it did...and thinking...hey, these are the same guys that are behind bio and Obs on NWN2...

 

Got a baaaaaaaad feeling of what Atari might do if this is right. I'm thinking just not enough testing with systems on a full game with their copyprotection slapped on.

 

Last thing I want however, is getting my NWN2 in my greedy little hands and being sadly disappointed. Unlike AoW:HT which was a somewhat exciting game...I'm REALLY looking forward to NWN2, I should get it right before I'm taking off for business elsewhere, so if it doesn't work out of the box, it could be a week or more before I have the chance to connect to the internet and patch (planning on the SP campaign first and then hopefully making some modules).

[greylord]

Who are you?  Just a gamer/enthusiast?  Because you have made references to a "we" in your posts.  Who is "we?"  You also indicate that you have connections with technical support, since you knew that pirated copies of these games do not suffer from these problems.  Who's tech support?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I must admit...yes I am a game enthusiast.

 

Hey, at least this isn't the worst Atari problem at the moment, even if I hadn't eventually got it running on some computer...at least it would install...

 

That's a heck of a lot better than the guys they've hosed with NWN Diamond in the last month...

 

(for a long story short...publishing error in codes in books for NWN cd codes...there were none...people sent CDs and asked for replacement, sent another copy...still with no CDcodes so they couldn't installed, and then told Atari couldn't give them any more replacements, and though working on it...couldn't do anything about it at the moment...so not even able to install...but they were offered a full refund soooo...)

[Llyranor]

Wait, are you the only one having problems with this?