Tough Questions

[alanschu]

Is it that extreme of an idea that some people (including women) consider abortions to be a willful act of terminating a life?

 

You seemed to be confused at the very idea that someone would think they have the right to "dictate" what a woman does to her own body? If she has a life growing inside of her, is she only doing stuff to her own body?

[Judge Hades]

Like I said before, the rights of the fetus should not supercede the rights of the woman. It might be life but its not a human being yet.

[metadigital]

So you would not save the busload of children if you had to choose whether to save them or a busload of senior citizens?

[Judge Hades]

That is different. The children are born and developed far enough to what I consider a human being. I fetus is not a human being. It is still just a cluster of cells and at the latter points of development an animal with no more intelligence and awareness than that of a chimpanzee or other primate.

[alanschu]

That's your definition. Is it truly any more right than someone who feels otherwise?

 

Remember, the issue here seems to be that you couldn't understand why people felt they had the right to regulate what a woman does to her body. If people think she's no longer doing stuff to just her body, but also the body (and life) of the unborn child, wouldn't that make sense for why some people are actually against unnecessary abortions?

 

And no one is saying that the rights of the fetus are superceding the rights of the woman. In fact, if it is believed that the pregnancy is going to cause ill health to the woman for whatever reason, abortion is the way to go (i.e. the woman's rights are "superceding" the rights of the fetus). And even anti-abortionists are willing to concede this, and typically see it as an acceptable situation for abortions to occur.

[Arkan]

Life is not precious. Over population is real, and crapy parents make crappy people.

 

Screw useless morals

[metadigital]

CONTEXT: Teenage pregnancy remains a pressing social issue and public health problem in the United States. Low cognitive ability is seldom studied as a risk factor for adolescent childbearing.

 

METHODS: Data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth were used in a matched-pairs nested case-control study comparing women who had a first birth before age 18 with those who did not. Significant differences in Armed Forces Qualifications Test scores and in reproductive and social intervening variables were determined using chi-square analyses and t-tests. Multiple logistic regression models determined the independent effects of specific factors on early childbearing.

 

RESULTS: Women who had their first birth before age 18 had significantly lower cognitive scores than others; women with a second birth before age 20 had significantly lower scores than those with one teenage birth. On average, women with the lowest cognitive scores initiated sexual activity 1.4 years earlier than those with the highest cognitive scores. Among those who had had a sexuality education course, a smaller proportion of women had scores in the first quartile for the overall sample than in the fourth quartile (20% vs. 28%); an even greater difference was seen among women who correctly answered a question about pregnancy risk (14% vs. 43%). Both poverty and low cognitive ability increased the odds of early childbearing.

 

CONCLUSIONS: Young women with low cognitive ability are at increased risk for early initiation of sexual activity and early pregnancy. Further research is needed to design interventions that consider this population's specific information and support needs.

Motherhood and age-cognitive correlations

[Judge Hades]

That's your definition.  Is it truly any more right than someone who feels otherwise?

 

It's more right for me and the only person I have to live with is myself.

 

People feel as you describe, Alan, have some misplaced morals. The child is unborn. It doesn't have a life. Its not even self aware.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Judge Hades

[metadigital]

That's your definition.  Is it truly any more right than someone who feels otherwise?

It[']s more right for me and the only person I have to live with is myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hades, meet society, society, meet Hades.

[Judge Hades]

I have no need to be a part of society except for work. I like my hermit status.

[Walsingham]

I should say I used to be much more forthright on this topic, until I had to help one of my friends while they chose what to do for themselves. It's a tough call any way you cut it. I still say a foetus ain't a person, but I'd encourage anyone facing thi choice to think it through on tehir own and not listen to the hundreds of armchair quarterbacks who'll try and get them to agree.

[Judge Hades]

Exactly. It is their decision and their decision alone. Its not up to me, or Alan, or Bush, or Clinton, or Cheney, of Limbaugh, or Jordon. Its up tot he individual woman which path she wants to take and all the options should be readily available to her.

[Checkpoint]

That's your definition.  Is it truly any more right than someone who feels otherwise?

 

It's more right for me and the only person I have to live with is myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then why must you force that opinion on a bunch of strangers on an online board?

[alanschu]

The great part was right after that line, when he said straight up that those people have misplaced morals.

[Dark Moth]

Exactly.  It is their decision and their decision alone.  Its not up to me, or Alan, or Bush, or Clinton, or Cheney, of Limbaugh, or Jordon.  Its up tot he individual woman which path she wants to take and all the options should be readily available to her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's up to the couple.

[metadigital]

The great part was right after that line, when he said straight up that those people have misplaced morals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the society that he doesn't want to be a part of!

[Judge Hades]

Exactly.  It is their decision and their decision alone.  Its not up to me, or Alan, or Bush, or Clinton, or Cheney, of Limbaugh, or Jordon.  Its up tot he individual woman which path she wants to take and all the options should be readily available to her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's up to the couple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wrong. Unless all of a sudden a man can get pregnant. After all a man can just sit back and watch. It's the woman who has to do all the work.

[Rosbjerg]

Wrong.  Unless all of a sudden a man can get pregnant.  After all a man can just sit back and watch.  It's the woman who has to do all the work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

.. it's still partly his genes! I would like to think that he at least get's the opportunity to air his opinion about what must be done.. the world is not full of Mary's you know..

[Judge Hades]

The great part was right after that line, when he said straight up that those people have misplaced morals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the society that he doesn't want to be a part of!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And your point? Why would I want to be around those who yell at me, force their religion in my face, and expect me to follow their two faced morality? I don't force anyone to do any thing. Checkpoint, you have the option to hit ignore so you won't have to read my bothersome posts. You can't do that when a person is less than a foot away yelling that you are going to hell.

[Judge Hades]

Wrong.  Unless all of a sudden a man can get pregnant.  After all a man can just sit back and watch.  It's the woman who has to do all the work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

.. it's still partly his genes! I would like to think that he at least get's the opportunity to air his opinion about what must be done.. the world is not full of Mary's you know..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So? He doesn't have to do any of the work. He doesn't have to carry the child for nine months then go through child birth. Hell, the man can leave his deposit and skip town without a worry. The man has no say.

[Rosbjerg]

So?  He doesn't have to do any of the work.  He doesn't have to carry the child for nine months then go through child birth.  Hell, the man can leave his deposit and skip town without a worry.  The man has no say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

you are sounding more and more like an angry femininst.. :ph34r:

[Judge Hades]

Nope, it's just how real life is.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Judge Hades

[SteveThaiBinh]

I agree with Hades. In the end, it has to be the woman's decision alone. If she's part of a loving relationship or family she will probably want to involve others in the decision, and that's for the better, but we can't assume or require that. It is her body, and no-one else's.

[Judge Hades]

Exactomundo, Steve. The ideal would be that the woman is indeed in a loving supporting relationship and can come to a decision that would be best for her, her boyfriend/fiancee/husband, and her family. The best case scenerio would then be no abortion taking place and the child is raised in a loving home.

 

The problem is that we don't live in a world of best case scenerios. In most cases it is the worst case scenerio that happens.

[alanschu]

The great part was right after that line, when he said straight up that those people have misplaced morals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the society that he doesn't want to be a part of!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And your point? Why would I want to be around those who yell at me, force their religion in my face, and expect me to follow their two faced morality? I don't force anyone to do any thing. Checkpoint, you have the option to hit ignore so you won't have to read my bothersome posts. You can't do that when a person is less than a foot away yelling that you are going to hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'm calling [horsehocky].

 

After the few encounters with religious missionaries I have had, the only possible way you could persistently getting people yelling at you screaming that you are going to hell is if you brought it on yourself by provoking them.

Edited August 30, 2006 by metadigital