Woman gets booted from sunday school

[Pidesco]

How many religions?  Give an example.  The Christian religion comes from the Bible, which is the highest authority.  The way it's practiced is up to those who intepret it.  Most denominations of Christianity do not say that sex or enjoying sex is a sin.

 

Roman Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church, and the Calvinists are a few huge examples.

[Pidesco]

Don't forget the Roman Catholic Church used to sell indulgences.  It's always possible to twist and distort things over time.  Don't just look at how some people practice it, that's not good enough.  Look at the source from which they derive their beliefs.  Same goes with any religion.

 

It's not about what some people practice in real life, it's about what the leaders and founders of many churches establish as being their official dogma.

[Dark Moth]

How many religions?  Give an example.  The Christian religion comes from the Bible, which is the highest authority.  The way it's practiced is up to those who intepret it.  Most denominations of Christianity do not say that sex or enjoying sex is a sin.

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Roman Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church, and the Calvinists are a few huge examples.

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I know of them, I was trying to get him to be less vague when posting his points.

 

Don't forget the Roman Catholic Church used to sell indulgences.  It's always possible to twist and distort things over time.  Don't just look at how some people practice it, that's not good enough.  Look at the source from which they derive their beliefs.  Same goes with any religion.

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It's not about what some people practice in real life, it's about what the leaders and founders of many churches establish as being their official dogma.

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Both of those points matter in real life. You can't just look at what some people in a select group decide what is right and wrong then apply it to the rest of the religion and its billions of followers, which is what you seem to be doing. Contrary to popular opinion, the Catholic Church does not represent all Christians as a whole.

Edited August 22, 2006 by Dark Moth

[kirottu]

How many religions?  Give an example.  The Christian religion comes from the Bible, which is the highest authority.  The way it's practiced is up to those who intepret it.  Most denominations of Christianity do not say that sex or enjoying sex is a sin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Extremist usually. The kind that preaches how bible is literally god

[Lucius]

No, Mothie believes that we shouldn't look at what people do with the religion, but what they're supposed to do with it, as if how they distort things isn't representative of whatever ****ty religion they practice! )

[Dark Moth]

How many religions?  Give an example.  The Christian religion comes from the Bible, which is the highest authority.  The way it's practiced is up to those who intepret it.  Most denominations of Christianity do not say that sex or enjoying sex is a sin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Extremist usually. The kind that preaches how bible is literally god

[Pidesco]

Both of those points matter in real life.  You can't just look at what some people in a select group decide what is right and wrong then apply it to the rest of the religion and its billions of followers, which is what you seem to be doing.  Contrary to popular opinion, the Catholic Church does not represent all Christians as a whole.

 

But, if someone says he belongs to this or that christian sect, that means he follows the tenets established as fundamental by the leader(s) of that sect. So, for example, if someone says he's a Catholic, he can't use condoms as a contraceptive because according to his own beliefs he's commiting a terrible sin.

[Lucius]

I feel like fightin', c'mon fundie, throw me a punch!

[Dark Moth]

This fundie would rather waste his time on something more worthwhile.

 

 

Both of those points matter in real life.  You can't just look at what some people in a select group decide what is right and wrong then apply it to the rest of the religion and its billions of followers, which is what you seem to be doing.  Contrary to popular opinion, the Catholic Church does not represent all Christians as a whole.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But, if someone says he belongs to this or that christian sect, that means he follows the tenets established as fundamental by the leader(s) of that sect. So, for example, if someone says he's a Catholic, he can't use condoms as a contraceptive because according to his own beliefs he's commiting a terrible sin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If what he's practicing is contrary to Biblical teachings, one could easily say he's distorting his own religion. Even if that entire scenario were true, would it be fair to say that Christian sect is applicable to all 2+ billion Christians on the globe, or to the entire religion in general? Especially when the Bible doesn't even say using condoms is a sin?

Edited August 22, 2006 by Dark Moth

[Pidesco]

No, of course not. if says he's a Catholic, then he's a Catholic; if not, then not.

 

But anyway, there are a lot of people, who proclaim themselves as plain old christian, but don't have any qualms with taking revenge on other people or not helping each every person who comes their way. I've seen people proclaiming themselves as being good christians, and yet being in favour of the death penalty. You have plenty of those in the US.

[Lucius]

Aww fundie doesn't think I'm worthwhile.

 

Oh it's time for a barn burner!

[Dark Moth]

No, of course not. if says he's a Catholic, then he's a Catholic; if not, then not.

 

But anyway, there are a lot of people, who proclaim themselves as plain old christian, but don't have any qualms with taking revenge on other people or not helping each every person who comes their way. I've seen people proclaiming themselves as being good christians, and yet being in favour of the death penalty. You have plenty of those in the US.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're dodging my original question.

 

In regards to this, nobody's perfect. First of all, you don't even live in the U.S. We're all human and do things all the time that we think are okay but would be considered wrong. That doesn't mean the religion as a whole condones it. you also forget that there are plenty of Christians who do believe revenge and the death penalty are wrong. We have plenty of those in the US too.

[Pidesco]

I don't have any problems with Christians who do what they preach, just with the ones who don't. And I don't think the Roman Catholic Church stands for all Christians. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

[Blank]

Yeah, I realize that my beliefs are faith-based, so trying to logically argue some points will never make sense to somebody that doesn't believe the same thing.

[Pidesco]

As for denomination, I go to an "Evangelical Conservative Baptist" church. It is really irrelevant, as my beliefs (as well as my church's) are primarily based on the bible.

 

Ok, just to make things clear this means you believe in the bible literally, and as such think the Sun goes around our planet and not the other way around, that the world was created some 6000 years ago, people used to live several hundred years, and the value of pi is, exactly, 3.

 

Also, you believe that everyone who isn't an Evangelical Conservative Baptist, will die a ghastly and fiery death in the pits of Hell, because they are not a part of the elect.

 

 

Ah, I just remembered your (probable) reason for asking if I believe God offed those kids. The reason might be so that you can say something like, "I don't want to believe in a God that kills little innocent children based on choices their parents make." To this I will respond: I can't change your beliefs. However, I can give you reasons as to why I still believe in this God. Firstly, He is sovreign, meaning he's the ruler of everything, so I believe that when I die, I go to him and my fate is at his fingertips. I also believe that my God is fair, and just, and good. So perhaps God knew what those kids would do if they had lived a whole life, and perhaps he found that they were as guilty as their fathers in it. I don't know what He did about those kids. Do those kids' lives mean anything to you anyway? Are you going to go out and proclaim that the Hebrew God is evil after this because he killed some kids that you think of every blue moon when you talk about religion? I doubt you will. I think that their lives, to you, are simply a part of your intellectual argument against God.

If I'm wrong, I apologize for making suppositions, and I would like to know your actual reasons for asking.

 

First I'd like to say that I believe there is a God, and that such a being must be amoral.

 

Now, the reason I asked you about God killing those kids is because those actions of God, if true, would go against his own ethics as taught by Jesus Christ on a few occasions, most especially during the sermon of the mount. And of course, don't forget that if you believe in the concept of the Holy Trinity, the Son and the Father are fundamentally the same being. Now, the only way that I can see for you to get out of this conundrum is to say that God preaches a "do what I say, don't do what I do" kind of ethic, which I trust, you don't agree with at all.

 

What do you have to say about this post Blank?

[Blank]

I'll reply. Firstly, I believe that God is sovreign and justified in anything he does. Secondly, I do subscribe to the "do what I say, not what I do" principle in this case. The reason I do that is because God and I are different. I am a human, and my realm of dealings is with what I do, not with punishment. God's realm of dealings goes beyond imagination, but one of them is punishment. To compare me to God is flawed, because his job is immeasurably larger than mine; we are so different that it is not comparable.

[Pidesco]

So why would God tell us to be nice to other people, no matter what, if He clearly believes in the idea of punishment?

 

 

Also, am I correct in my understanding that you believe in the Bible literally?

[Blank]

So why would God tell us to be nice to other people, no matter what, if He clearly believes in the idea of punishment?

 

Also, am I correct in my understanding that you believe in the Bible literally?

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Like I said, we aren't the punishers, that is reserved for his job.

Edited August 22, 2006 by Blank

[Pidesco]

On to another subject, then:

 

Do you believe in the Bible literally, Blank?

[Blank]

I will say that I don't ignore context, but I try to take the bible literally as much as it is possible for me.

[Pidesco]

What does that mean exactly? What don't you take literally? What about that little list I posted before?

[Blank]

And by previous list I'll assume you mean this one:

Ok, just to make things clear this means you believe in the bible literally, and as such think the Sun goes around our planet and not the other way around, that the world was created some 6000 years ago, people used to live several hundred years, and the value of pi is, exactly, 3.

 

Also, you believe that everyone who isn't an Evangelical Conservative Baptist, will die a ghastly and fiery death in the pits of Hell, because they are not a part of the elect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let's see... the sun, we have documented, does not go around our planet. I don't believe it does. Therefore, that instance in the bible, I do not take literally. What passage is that from though? I think there is something like that in Psalms, a book of songs. Songs are artistic, and oftentimes scientifically unsound. I say I get heartburn, when I know that it is stomache acids pushing up my esophagus.

 

As for the world being created 6000 years ago, I believe that is true, yes. I explain all aging of the world we find as being made by God. If I was going to make a world, and I was God, it would make sense to not make it a planet that is just coming into existence. I would create the world "aged" a bit, like good wine, in order to house people. As for carbon dating and stuff like that, I believe the atmosphere was different in the beginning of time, and that a flood occured.

 

Pi is not exactly three. If that is in the bible, then it is simply not true, and one should look at the spirit of the passage. Where is it in the bible (just wondering)?

Edited August 22, 2006 by Blank

[Blank]

Sorry for double posting, but some people get annoyed when I edit my posts in these settings.

 

The instances that I don't take the bible literally, I make sure to put them up to the rest of the bible, and see if my decision is right to not take the instance literally.

 

Moreover, what I say I believe doesn't matter, because my beliefs are defined by what I do, and the heart behind what I do.

[thepixiesrock]

In before lock!

[Pidesco]

In the first Book of Kings, 7.23, a large vessel in the temple of Solomon is described, including its measurements which are 10 cubits in diameter and 30 in perimeter. Hence, if someone were to beileve that the whole of the Bible is to be taken literally due to it being divinely inspired, the value of pi would be 3.

 

So, you believe that God created the Universe 6000 years ago but made it so that it would appear to be a lot older? Why not create the Universe right at the starting point then, was He running out of time?

 

By the way, do you also believe thay humanity was the product of a lot of inbreeding?