Why Blizzard is so Successful

[Judge Hades]

Alanschu, people haven't given me a straight answer on this. When I think of Diablo I see a mindless clickfest that requires very little from the player beyond clicking the mouse and getting "phat loot." At least the Infinity engine games you need strategy and they often have good stories to them to keep one interested. I can see why people would like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, but Diablo I do not.

Edited August 8, 2006 by Judge Hades

[kirottu]

Alanschu, people haven't given me a straight answer on this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, since I don

[vaxen83]

For original Diablo, defeating endboss was barely hard, depending on character. With Rogue, just pushed levers to unlock walls where Diablo was in, aimed cursor at 90 degrees straight at boss, and just kept on shooting, kept him in stunlock and ended it without having to go through whatever minions were with him. (From a distance assumed)

 

And a thing did like about D2 in ver 1.00 was mass effect of stacking spells. Immolation Arrows worked like constant fire burning, until they came up with something called casting delays. Just as well, bosses and magic users in Act III Travincal were literally stacking up streams of meteors/blizzards against me.

Edited August 8, 2006 by vaxen83

[Craigboy2]

Alanschu, people haven't given me a straight answer on this.  When I think of Diablo I see a mindless clickfest that requires very little from the player beyond clicking the mouse and getting "phat loot."  At least the Infinity engine games you need strategy and they often have good stories to them to keep one interested.  I can see why people would like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, but Diablo I do not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe people just liked the pick and play type of combat and they get addicted leveling up? I don't know.

[vaxen83]

With games like D2, one can create two characters of same class and still find that they might have slight differences. Item generation is never exactly same for each game. Much flexibility when it comes to skill point distribution for character. Druid was interesting when it came to Baal as final act boss. Used dire wolves to attack him and shielded myself from his cold wave attacks.

 

Only thing that was a bit redundant was that hired sidekicks from each Act died almost as soon as they went into monster hostile areas. Back to my character being alone again. (Not counting summoned creatures)

[Musopticon?]

Strategy in Infinity games=Buff spells+breach+mass haste+clickclickclick

 

 

Yeah, up until IWD 2, that is.

[Pidesco]

That wasn't the strategy in the beginning of BG1. In fact, the following strategy was used:

 

Magic missile on the bear to get its attention and then run in circles while Imoen pelts it with arrows.

Edited August 8, 2006 by Pidesco

[alanschu]

Hahaha I remember that.

[Musopticon?]

Yeah, which is why I stopped playing.

 

Gameplay consisted of

a)use all your spells on the creatures

b)run around them while the rest of your party empty their quivers

c)sleep until healed

 

Generalisations are fun, aren't they?

[Pidesco]

The problem is DnD's spell memorization system. It's bloody awful.

[Ellester]

The problem is DnD's spell memorization system. It's bloody awful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The d&d spell system is fair at mid-levels. Some of the spells are really powerful, so there is no reason one should have unlimited use of them. In Wizardry 8 it makes sense to have mana because all of the spells are not that powerful, and in Sacred weapon feats are the same as magic, so everyone is using them all the time and they are equal in damage (for the most part). But in d&d spells are not equal to fighting feats. Imagine casting unlimited Wail of the Banshee or Heal in IWDII with using mana potions. It would be ridiculous and take the fun right out of the game.

 

The problem is at low levels people can't stand only being allowed 3 spells for an entire day, which I understand. But I

Edited August 8, 2006 by Ellester

[Musopticon?]

Agreed, you cuffawkler. BG 2 was plain ridiculous sometimes, when every enemy you encountered needed magic to beat(or just really high magical weapons you didn't happen to have then) and you slept like three times a dungeon. I mean, who the heck sleeps in a dungeon?

 

Then again, NWN was even worse. First ten levels, you had to sleep after every corner.

 

Edit: Still, the rarity of use some higher spells saw, made you price them much higher and a lot of strategy came from the fact that you had to plan your spell memorization list for each bigger battle.

 

I wasn't exactly annoyed when they added Sorcerers though.*

 

Sequencer, fireball, fireball FIREBALL! x six zillion

Edited August 8, 2006 by Musopticon?

[Pidesco]

Don't forget that in terms of the world and DnD logic it makes mages just seem silly. Why a 20th level

[Calax]

Don't forget that in terms of the world and DnD logic it makes mages just seem silly. Why a 20th level

[Musopticon?]

Make it five and that system might work.

 

Unlimited fireball is a bit too much on 7th level.

[Calax]

Make it five and that system might work.

 

Unlimited fireball is a bit too much on 7th level.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(remembers a lan game with friends who duped fireball to the point of level nine... adventuring in the church of Diablo 1 and fighting things as a warrior only to see fireballs flying across the screen blowing stuff up (it had aoe). then one hit the skeleton next to me....)

 

Yeah I see your point.

[alanschu]

Diablo one was hideous. Everyone it seemed had a staff that had 255 charges of the Apocolypse spell.

 

Or people that had Nova as a spell in their book, rather than a scroll.

 

 

Or the infamous Godly Plate of the Whale.

[Pidesco]

How about dealing away with the whole memorizing bit and just change some basic spell stats as the magic user goes up in levels.

 

Example: A first level magic missile would take half an hour to cast, do 1 hit point damage and make the caster 20% tired after using it. A 20th level magic missile would be cast instantly, do 20 hit points damage and not tire the caster at all after using it.

 

Disclaimer: Do not take these numbers seriously, and feel free to add other ways to nerf spells for balancing purposes.

 

P.S.: I'd like to know what the views of Obsidian's designers are on this subject.

Edited August 8, 2006 by Pidesco

[Darth Drabek]

Rip's in another TIMEZONE!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh man, I just laughed kinda loud at work. :ph34r:

 

Seriously, that game ruled. Even if the gameplay wasn't awesome, the soundtrack of cheesy midi's of classic rock hits gives Rock N Roll Racing an A+ in my book.

 

 

You guys are hitting on all the points that make Blizzard's games so successful. If you DIDN'T come from D&D, the BG/IWD games take a serious commitment to learn enough to not get yourself killed immediately.

 

Blizzard gives people the fantasy they're jonesing for without the number crunching and the feeling of utter uselessness with a low level character.

 

I agree with making low level spells unlimited after your mage reaches a certain level. Hell, most of the enemies you face on the high levels are going to shrug off magic missile anyway. But then what would we do with all those Identify scrolls?

[Calax]

1/2 hour for magic missle?

 

:imagination:

 

Fighter:ok we're going to fight now!

 

Mage: casting Magic MISSILE!

 

everybody:...

 

Mage: :tribal chanting, hopping on one leg: Don't worry I'll kill that evil rat on the tree next to us!

 

Fighter: ummmm what about those giants?

 

Mage: you realize that I'm gonna be doing this for a half hour?

 

Fighter: oh.

[Pidesco]

Disclaimer: Do not take these numbers seriously, and feel free to add other ways to nerf spells for balancing purposes.

 

I guess you didn't read this part Calax. <_>

 

Still, funny though.

[Musopticon?]

How about dealing away with the whole memorizing bit and just change some basic spell stats as the magic user goes up in levels.

 

Example: A first level magic missile would take half an hour to cast, do 1 hit point damage and make the caster 20% tired after using it. A 20th level magic missile would be cast instantly, do 20 hit points damage and not tire the caster at all after using it.

 

Disclaimer: Do not take these numbers seriously, and feel free to add other ways to nerf spells for balancing purposes.

 

P.S.: I'd like to know what the views of Obisidian's designers are on this subject.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not MCA, but that sound almost plausible. Sort of a fatigue cost, eh? It's better then a simple mana system, since the losing of stats affects more things than just some arbitary number of points in your manapool.

[Calax]

... all i saw was a half hour for magic missile.

 

I'd prefer to see your ability to use spells relate to your stamina. the more spells the more drained you are PHYSICALLY. instead of by your freaking memory.

[Pidesco]

Fatigue is used in Elder Scrolls games concurrently with a mana system. In my opinion, fatigue kind of makes mana superfluous, though.

 

... all i saw was a half hour for magic missile.

 

I'd prefer to see your ability to use spells relate to your stamina. the more spells the more drained you are PHYSICALLY. instead of by your freaking memory.

 

Umm, that's what I suggested.

Edited August 8, 2006 by Pidesco

[Musopticon?]

We do remember the fighter mages of Arcanum, right? Falling unconscious during melee and all that.

 

 

It would be really awkward on parties.

 

Hey, that's an idea! The more you cast, the more drunk with power you become and begin gibber ferventely/froth at mouth/wear bananas on you ears/fall unsconscious from sheer extacy/experience drunken torpor, etc.

 

But the best possible system would be a mix of Jade Empire ki and drunken kung-fu. The more drunk you are the more powerful you became. At the end you could go to somehting similar to Bloodlines bloodrage(humanity loss+lack of blood). Tossin foes left and right, the player would loose control totally.