Kaftan Barlast Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/12/mideast/index.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5173078.stm P DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Krookie Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 Now it's only a matter of time before they ask for our (U.S) help. And with Bush being the guy he is, he'll send more troops.
Walsingham Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 Now it's only a matter of time before they ask for our (U.S) help. And with Bush being the guy he is, he'll send more troops. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you certain this is what you meant to say? The US has never deployed troops to Israel so far as I'm aware. Possibly because there simply isn't room. People would have to get shoved out into the sea to make way for a single division. "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
metadigital Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 It's not an unprovoked attack: someone has taken soldiers prisoner, and the Israelis are just using extreme prejudice to try and reclaim them. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
Lucius Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 Hizbollah started it... IDF will finish it! ) DENMARK! It appears that I have not yet found a sig to replace the one about me not being banned... interesting.
Kaftan Barlast Posted July 12, 2006 Author Posted July 12, 2006 Hizbollah started it... IDF will finish it! ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, reasonable course of action would have been to send in a small covert team to retrieve the soldiers, instead they came with an entire armour division with substansive air support and artillery. Earlier this week they also shelled Gaza City, which doesnt make any sense whatsoever if youre trying to liberate a hostage held by a small group of terrorists hiding among civilians. This is a show of force, a tactic theyve applied again and again since the end of the 1948 war. It didnt work back then and it wont work now either. All they will accomplish is more dead civilians and even angrier arabs wordwide, which will help to increase terrorism rather than supress it. DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Krookie Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 Now it's only a matter of time before they ask for our (U.S) help. And with Bush being the guy he is, he'll send more troops. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you certain this is what you meant to say? The US has never deployed troops to Israel so far as I'm aware. Possibly because there simply isn't room. People would have to get shoved out into the sea to make way for a single division. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I should have worded it better. We may not physically send troops there, but I'm sure we will aid the Israelies in some way.
Cantousent Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 We already aid Israel in many substantial ways. It is, if I'm not mistaken, the recipient of our largest foreign military aid package. Follow, if I remember correctly, by Egypt. I agree with Kaftan in that the violence there has no end in sight. If Palestinians didn't take the deal that Clinton helped broker, there is no deal to be made. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Volourn Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 "whatsoever if youre trying to liberate a hostage held by a small group of terrorists hiding among civilians." Isn't Hamas the kindappers in question (not the newest ones as those are Hezballoah); but the older ones. Plus, Hamas is attacking Isreal. last I checked, Hamas is one half of the Palestine government. They're more than just a simple terrorist group now. As for the violence, one can only hope we'll see peace between these three countries within our lifetimes. Somehow it seems doubtful... DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Walsingham Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 I do think that the Israeli govt is currently of the opinion that a peaceful route is too difficult. They would rather exist in a state of constant war, which they at least are quite good at. Quick not-thought-through question: If Israel gave the Palestinians a state would that mean they could bomb whoever and whatever they wanted under the normal rules of war? "It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"." -Elwood Blues tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.
Lucius Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 To me it seems these terrorists in Lebanon, Palestine and their friends in Damaskus only understand the sword. When I spoke to my old man earlier today he said: "nuke em", well I wouldn't go that far, but a show of force is needed imo. DENMARK! It appears that I have not yet found a sig to replace the one about me not being banned... interesting.
taks Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 Im not saying they are wrong or right, because I dont believe the cycle of violence down there can be ended by any means. Other than all parties invovled laying down all their arms at the same time, which is not going to happen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> unfortunately, this is just too true. laying blame anymore is impossible as well because the warlike existence in that part of the world is almost too ingrained to be dropped. both sides have gotten to the point that the most innocuous action results in extreme reaction. the hate just runs too deep for any reasonable resolution. taks comrade taks... just because.
Judge Hades Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 This wouldn't be a problem if the US and Great Britain didn't involve themselves inthe Middle East back at the end of WW2 and formed Israel in the first place. Israel shouldn't even exist. The only way for their to e peace in the Middle East is to wipe out the human element on one side or the other. Only through total genocide can their be peace.
Judge Hades Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 Israel should go. Go far far away and never come back.
alanschu Posted July 12, 2006 Posted July 12, 2006 Yeah, reasonable course of action would have been to send in a small covert team to retrieve the soldiers, instead they came with an entire armour division with substansive air support and artillery. Yes, because just like the movies small covert teams are secret ninjas and pull of rescue ops no problem.
Cantousent Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 Please refrain from advocating genocide on the Obsidian boards. In other news, the power-mad moderator, El-Dar, plans on smiting board members who can't control their more exuberant genocide lovin' tendencies. Litigious use of genocide will not protect you from El-Dar's loving rays of cleansing. I'm sure Kaftan would like to see his thread remain open until it reaches the thread length hall of fame. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Kaftan Barlast Posted July 13, 2006 Author Posted July 13, 2006 Yeah, reasonable course of action would have been to send in a small covert team to retrieve the soldiers, instead they came with an entire armour division with substansive air support and artillery. Yes, because just like the movies small covert teams are secret ninjas and pull of rescue ops no problem. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, hollywood or not, that is what groups like the YAMAM or Sayaret Matkal are for. An armour division is what you use if youre attempting to rescue 5000 soldiers caught in a pinching manouver by the enemy, not to save two men taken prisoner by guerillas DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Judge Hades Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Eldar, I am not advocating genocide but the only way there will be peace in the Middle East is one side wiping out the other completely. That region has been contested for centuries and the people have a hate that they will not let go. If there is a solution other than this I don't see it. We are dealing with human beings with opposing cultures, religious beliefs, a fierce fanatical bent that there way is the only right way and everyone else who thinks differently deserves death. Eldar, if you have another solution then lets hear it. Edited July 13, 2006 by Judge Hades
Cantousent Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 Just waiting for the clarification, Hades. Don't want anyone to think that we're letting folks call for genocide on the boards. As for the solution. There're many solutions. Clinton and co. came up with a viable solution. It's not that genocide is necessary. In fact, genocide is unlikely. I mean, do you really think one side or the other will be able to kill all of the other side? Not a chance. So saying that the only solution is genocide is essentially saying there is no solution at all. That, my friend, might be the case. However, I was a bit uncertain how to take this comment: "Only through total genocide can their be peace." followed closely by this comment: "Israel should go. Go far far away and never come back." I don't like that uncertain feeling. Thank you for making your thoughts clearer. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Judge Hades Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 No problem, but I do think that Israel is in the wrong here. Because of the interference of th US and Great Britain in the region back in the 1940's to now is one of the reasons why the Middle East is so **** up right now. If Israel did not exist the world would be better off.
Cantousent Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 Israel as a state is rather different than Jews as a people. That I will grant. The question as to who is right or wrong is a different matter. However, the reason Israel continues to exist, as opposed to other forms of Imperial colonialism, is that the Jewish people emmigrated to Isreal in sufficient numbers to control the land. There's simply no way to dislodge them at this point. In fact, if the Jews were forced out of Israel, it would cause just as great of problems in the world as the situation we currently face in the Middle East. As you said, the region has been in turmoil for a long time. In fact, the region has been in turmoil for thousands of years. I doubt if we can lay the blame for all of that on the Israelis. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Judge Hades Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 No, but they are not helping matters, and for the most part their pressence are making things worse.
Gorth Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 However, the reason Israel continues to exist, as opposed to other forms of Imperial colonialism, is that the Jewish people emmigrated to Isreal in sufficient numbers to control the land. There's simply no way to dislodge them at this point. In fact, if the Jews were forced out of Israel, it would cause just as great of problems in the world as the situation we currently face in the Middle East. Which pretty much sums it up. Once the immigrants had sufficient numbers to aquire a national identity, you can't just disperse them again. The same thing goes for the people who used to live there and were forced from their homes, once they were in sufficient numbers, they also gained a sort of identity as a group. There isn't really such a thing as a palestinian "nation", but people who used to live in the space between Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt and the Mediterranean are united by a common cause, hatred against those who occupy their ancestral land and the prospect of not having a future. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein
Cantousent Posted July 13, 2006 Posted July 13, 2006 I see that as another problem, Gorth. The lands in that region are "ancestral" to so many people, it's war-bait no matter who's in control. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
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