the fall of what could be a good game

[Calax]

I'm posting this because I need to do a little bit of ranting to vent against Majestco. Particularly over Advent rising (which I snagged for about 19.99). I install the game and play it, It's got a few bugs (not the bucketloads that Vampire had in version 1.0) but is generally playable. Some of the glitches are sound based and I quit the game to go see if theres a patch. When I try to get back in I get a general protection fault error with no reason or history given.

 

Now when you go through the majesco forums you find threads about this and NO developer responce or even an attempt to say sorry. No patch in the works nothing. This is one of those games that was sent out buggy as heck and just not checked on. At least Troika tried to fix a few bugs.

 

I've been noticing that there are several games that are hyped above and byond the call of duty, but then they come out and get panned as either average or a little bleow average, OR get squashed by the compition and can't make the dent in the market they should have dispite being a good game and usually the dev either cuts production on ANYTHING having to do with said project or otherwise finds a way to run like hell. Games like Advent and Vampire COULD have been good games. But it seemed like the first round of stuff was acutally more of a beta test without any Gold version being submitted (via patch).

 

Another game that feels like it should be in this catagory is Pariah. The game is good, short but good. But the guns don't have much ammo and the storyline is held together by a leap and a prayer. It felt more like they were sending out a playable build complete with the expository dialogue and the actual story. What little we are told about the story comes in voice overs that kinda jump from point a to point c and your supposed to be a good little boy and hit on point B.

 

Honestly it just bugs me that a company would put all this effort into making a games name known only to kill it at day 3 because the reviewers decided it wasn't exactly half life reborn.

[Judge Hades]

The problem with Troika is that they messed up on their first two games. They went ahead and made a very ambitious game out of Arcanum, but in truth they should have done a licensed product first. Something with name recognition. They did so with their second game but it was a castrated attempt that basically turned off a good deal of their fence sitting fans. When Vampire was released the sales were not what they wanted so Activism pulled the plug on support money. We're lucky that we got a patch for that game.

[Kaftan Barlast]

QA is severely undererestimated, Ive heard this from gamers to designers and even a corporate CEO.

 

A lot of companies apparently dont do any QA at all except a final tech test before the gold master goes to print where theyll send it back if they find any gamestoppers.

 

 

 

..but from my experieces with making games it doesnt surprise me. For all the 4-5 games weve made this year, we havent had time to properly test any of them. In our final exhibition with all the bigshots a few weeks ago, the programmers were continuously updating the code as the game was being demoed over the course of two days. thered be a new version every 30min.

Edited June 21, 2006 by Kaftan Barlast

[Darque]

The problem with Troika is that they messed up on their first two games.  They went ahead and made a very ambitious game out of Arcanum, but in truth they should have done a licensed product first.  Something with name recognition.  They did so with their second game but it was a castrated attempt that basically turned off a good deal of their fence sitting fans.  When Vampire was released the sales were not what they wanted so Activism pulled the plug on support money.  We're lucky that we got a patch for that game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hades nailed it.

[Judge Hades]

This is why Obsidian is smarter than Troika. Go ahead and do a few licensed projects like KotOR 2 and NWN 2 so they can build up the funds necessary for their own "Arcanum."

[Nick_i_am]

While there were very few 'gamestopping' bugs, the buggiest game that I have ever played that was still worth playing despite them has to be Hidden and Dangerous.

 

Falilng through floors, drivables doing exceptionally odd things, stuff like that, it was all in the 'gameplay' rather than random crashes, but dear lord could it be frustrating.

 

Yes, I know this post is only loosely related to the actual topic.

[Dhruin]

Now when you go through the majesco forums you find threads about this and NO developer responce or even an attempt to say sorry. No patch in the works nothing. This is one of those games that was sent out buggy as heck and just not checked on. At least Troika tried to fix a few bugs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Majesco went awfully close to going under. Whether their financial problems preceeded the quality issues or vice versa, once any company is staring at ruin, patches and support will often be among the first things to go. It's a shame -- but you'll never, ever, ever change this. It's particularly a pity because it is actually original (or at least "different") games such as Psychonauts that near killed them.

 

This is why Obsidian is smarter than Troika. Go ahead and do a few licensed projects like KotOR 2 and NWN 2 so they can build up the funds necessary for their own "Arcanum."

 

Except they won't ever make their own Arcanum. Not as such. I'm not disagreeing that Obsidian is smarter from a business perspective (and I'm not trying to denigrate them) but their first IP (whatever it is) will tread a very careful path with plenty of elements to appeal to a wider audience. I understand this necessity but Arcanum was pretty unashamably aimed at a more hardcore audience than I think Obsidian will shoot for.

 

For all the flaws of Arcanum, I think the gaming world is richer for it having been made than not.

[Judge Hades]

I agree, but more than likely Troika would still be around if they made ToEE, then Vampire for both PC and X Box, and then Arcanum.

[Dark_Raven]

Troika, it always saddens me to know they are gone, there was so much potential in a game like Bloodlines, so close to perfection. I can only imagine where they could be now if they were still around.

[Calax]

Troika, it always saddens me to know they are gone, there was so much potential in a game like Bloodlines, so close to perfection. I can only imagine where they could be now if they were still around. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that is a perfect line for VV...

 

Just saying.

 

but with advent rising i could only play it ONCE for about three hours before I couldn't get back in...

 

Well now I'm playing Fable TLC and having a good time even if the controls are wierd and getting into twinblades camp is like trying to hit a target a half mile a way with a 9 mm.

[Darque]

This is why Obsidian is smarter than Troika.  Go ahead and do a few licensed projects like KotOR 2 and NWN 2 so they can build up the funds necessary for their own "Arcanum."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This I kinda disagree with.

 

While I do see the benefit of doing KotOR 2 and NWN2... I think we've all seen the downside of being shackled by a top property.

 

KotOR2 was unfinished and NWN2 seems to be trimmed down.

 

On the other hand, if it allows Obidz to make their own games, it was all worth it

[Judge Hades]

True enough Darque, but with any luck Obsidian will indeed wow us PC gamers with their own IP.

[Darque]

Time'll tell

 

Shame it won't be a vampire game. :ph34r:

[Dark_Raven]

Time'll tell

 

Shame it won't be a vampire game.  :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sadness indeed.

[LoneWolf16]

I love how mods can edit their posts without that stupid edited tag popping up at the bottom of it.

 

Anywho, Troika, as creative as they were, made some really, really poor business decisions. For instance, publically blaming publishers for mistakes made.

 

Here's hoping Obsidian can find a good balance between creativity and business sense.

[Jora]

Anywho, Troika, as creative as they were, made some really, really poor business decisions. For instance, publically blaming publishers for mistakes made.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again. No, they didn't.

[Judge Hades]

Didn't they blame Atari for the sad shape for ToEE?

[Jora]

Didn't they blame Atari for the sad shape for ToEE?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They said that Atari chose not to release a later version of the game and that Atari only wanted to finance one patch.

[Judge Hades]

So, they stated that Atari f**ked the game up for them.

[Jora]

So, they stated that Atari f**ked the game up for them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, that's just you drawing your own conclusion. They didn't even say anything like "Atari totally forced us to implement these bugs" or "If it wasn't for those bad QA testers, the game would've been great". They stated many times that they take all the blame for bugs and other issues. (Not voice acting, however. Atari gave them bad actors )

[Dark_Raven]

Since Atari was financing the patch/patches the blame would lay on them since they did not permit the game to be corrected after it was released.

[Fenghuang]

Am I missing something?

 

Shouldn't the game have been released in a less buggy state?

[Judge Hades]

So, how is not Atari's fault in the state that ToEE was released?

[Skynet]

Since Atari was financing the patch/patches the blame would lay on them since they did not permit the game to be corrected after it was released.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Trust me, it would take more than a few patches to make that game any good.

[Janmanden]

I'd like to think that Troika tried to pull off both ToEE and Bloodlines at the same time and that all the techies went into ToEE and all the creative minds into Bloodlines. Along the line of what ToEE lacks in content, Bloodlines lacks in mechanics, which has also been the emphasis more or less of the initial reviews. ToEE definitely lacks a LOT more than Bloodlines. That aside, Troika was also way to relaxed about the hardware requirement, it should really have read 1GB RAM requirement as it's way to buggy with 512MB. I've played thru Bloodlines 1.0 with 1GB RAM several times with only the ONE (Johansen Rescue) gamestopper to mar an otherwise solid experience. Not to mention that it also loads faster than HL2 itself. I guess life is hard for an independent game developer that doesn't have BioWare or LucasArts to watch their backs...