Who will win the console war?

[Craigboy2]

bob ross is the guy with the happy secret tree that if you tell anyone about it he'll come and cut you right?

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Bob Ross is the guy that is dead and they play his old episodes on PBS.

[mkreku]

Netural developers (ones for both platforms obviously), have all echoed the same thoughts, Cell is much harder to program for, dispite being more powerful, and that Xenos is more powerful than the RSX.

Cell is "much harder to program for"? Any links?

 

In any case, I thought this was settled already over a year ago when Tim Sweeney made his famous comment on the Playstation 3.

 

"In what must come as a relief to developers, Epic Games' Tim Sweeney was on hand to vouch for the PS3, saying it was "easy to program for" and that Epic had received its first PS3 hardware two months ago."

 

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html

 

I agree with alanschu, the main problem to overcome is the step from single threaded programming to multi threaded programming. Of course the CPU's will be different, but the basic theory behind the programming will be the same, no matter how many cores there are in the processor. And since none of the next-gen processors will demand machine code level programming from the developers, the relevance lies on the dev tools more than on the actual CPU architecture.

 

 

 

Another link that I thought was interesting, which points to what Microsoft has done right with the Xbox 360:

 

http://stevenf.com/mt/2006/05/why_i_bought_an_xbox_360.php

[Haitoku]

M$ is ditching backwards compatibility.

 

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3151161

[kirottu]

Pc will win in the console war! Yarrr!

[Craigboy2]

M$ is ditching backwards compatibility.

 

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3151161

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Stop living in the past.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/711/711060p1.html

[Dark_Raven]

Pc will win in the console war! Yarrr!

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Of course.

[Haitoku]

Pc will win in the console war! Yarrr!

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Of course.

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Didn't you hear? The PS3 will replace your computer.

[10k fists]

Cell is "much harder to program for"? Any links?

 

In any case, I thought this was settled already over a year ago when Tim Sweeney made his famous comment on the Playstation 3.

 

"In what must come as a relief to developers, Epic Games' Tim Sweeney was on hand to vouch for the PS3, saying it was "easy to program for" and that Epic had received its first PS3 hardware two months ago."

 

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html

 

I agree with alanschu, the main problem to overcome is the step from single threaded programming to multi threaded programming. Of course the CPU's will be different, but the basic theory behind the programming will be the same, no matter how many cores there are in the processor. And since none of the next-gen processors will demand machine code level programming from the developers, the relevance lies on the dev tools more than on the actual CPU architecture.

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Carmack has commented on its complexity - his words were "pain in the ass" I believe.

Square-Enix is already having small issues with Final Fantasy 13, and they've yet to really dive into Cell.

It took a team of world renown programers over 15 months to optimize half of the SPEs in Cell to run the benchmarks used in Berkleys study.

 

Tims comments go against what nearly everybody else in the industry has said. Regardless of his comments, they hold little weight in the industry as a whole, since he's no longer coding the engines. I thought we were to the point that everyone could see through the smoke and mirrors that Sony uses? Paying for out of house PR statements, showing software not actually running on the hardware itself, and other methods of deception to gamers.

 

Sorry that you think that the compilers will be magical, but claiming it's just multi-threading to mainly overcome is to put it bluntly, wrong. Multi-threaded processors and code are nothing new. If you really wanted to make a case against the complexity of Cell/Xenon, then you could have at least tried the argument of in-order processing instead of out of order processing. The fact that you and the other guy seem to insist that the eight "cores" on Cell and the three cores on Xenon are somehow not that dissimilar is quite funny.

 

On one chipset you have a CPU with seven co-processors that are nothing more than FPU pushing slaves to the PPE. You have a completely different architecture approach and focus, with poor branch prediction and a short history tree. A processor that is a FPU pushing beast, but weak on all other fronts. Do you honestly think that the compilers are going to magically transform their base "multi-core code" (that you and the other guy seem to think they'll be doing) and turn it into something that Cell can utilize in an optimal way?

 

On the other chipset, you have a CPU with three symetrical cores, has incredible vector processing capabilities, very strong branch prediction (pushing 90%) in all three cores. A chipset that each core can run independantly from one another, or can be utilized like Cell, with one being the conductor and the other two being slaves (less than optimal for its design). The focus of this chipset is to run games and games only, a multitude of changes made to the ALU that reduce clock cycles for common tasks.

 

In order for developers to actually use Cell, and benefit from its power, they're going to have to spend an enormous amount of time learning the architecture, far more than they will have to spend on Broadway or Xenon. The cores on Cell are not similar to the cores on Xenon from a programming standpoint.

Edited June 3, 2006 by 10k fists

[Dark_Raven]

Pc will win in the console war! Yarrr!

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Of course.

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Didn't you hear? The PS3 will replace your computer.

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Never happen. But thanks for playing.

[Meshugger]

People, people. The difficulty of using the X amount of threads are not going to make or break the console's success. The PS2 was way more difficult to write code for than the PS3, but it didn't stop it from selling 100 million copies worldwide.

 

A console's success is determined by (courtesy of Meshugger's very insightful and delicate understanding of the market) the following factors:

 

- Games.

- More games, better games, and a big library of them.

- Hype, style and understanding of the target audience. (What's cool? What's hip?)

[Meshugger]

Oh, and PC gaming will never go away. It's the only platform that isn't bound by its hardware and will always push the envelope.

 

It's like saying that Metal music is gone and forgotten, far from it.

[10k fists]

People, people. The difficulty of using the X amount of threads are not going to make or break the console's success. The PS2 was way more difficult to write code for than the PS3, but it didn't stop it from selling 100 million copies worldwide.

 

A console's success is determined by (courtesy of Meshugger's very insightful and delicate understanding of the market) the following factors:

 

- Games.

- More games, better games, and a big library of them.

- Hype, style and understanding of the target audience. (What's cool? What's hip?)

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Nobody in this debate is claiming the difficulty of coding on the console has any relation to the success of the it.

[Meshugger]

People, people. The difficulty of using the X amount of threads are not going to make or break the console's success. The PS2 was way more difficult to write code for than the PS3, but it didn't stop it from selling 100 million copies worldwide.

 

A console's success is determined by (courtesy of Meshugger's very insightful and delicate understanding of the market) the following factors:

 

- Games.

- More games, better games, and a big library of them.

- Hype, style and understanding of the target audience. (What's cool? What's hip?)

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Nobody in this debate is claiming the difficulty of coding on the console has any relation to the success of the it.

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I was responding to the thread title, my bad

[Plano Skywalker]

the PC platform will not die as a gaming format any time soon.....it will, however, find its center of gravity.

 

the PC will be the place where you play builders, RTSs, Sims, and TBSs.

 

shooters, rpgs, adventure and action games will find their home more on consoles, I believe.

 

this is not going to happen overnight but I think it will happen.

[Calax]

Pc will win in the console war! Yarrr!

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that's like saying a ninja would win a pirate's war...

 

then the robots the dual wield lesbians dual wielding rocketlaunchers enter the fray.

[LostStraw]

Never happen. But thanks for playing.

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I bet I could replace your computer with a PS3 and you'd never notice .

 

obey sony.. ooobbeeeyyy sooooonnyyyy *cackle, cough, splat*

[10k fists]

I was responding to the thread title, my bad

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Oh, sorry.

[red47]

It's really hard to tell at this point... I think it's safe to say Nintendo Wii had the most surprises and innovation. I however still believe the Wii to be nothing more then a Gamecube with a neat little gimmick.

 

Xbox 360 is everything I expected it to be. It will provide nothing that I'm not already getting on my PC.

 

Playstation 3 is nothing new. Just more of the same. That's what I wanted though, which is probably why it will be the only console I buy.

 

 

 

 

There is alot that you are not getting on your PC that is on xbox 360, like achievments, xbox live, xbox live arcade, good Xbox only exclusive titles like gears of war and halo 3, so you as a PC person are actually missing out on alot more, you will be getting everything you are already getting on your pc and more. Also i forgot to mention that the xbox live vision camera that will be only 40 bucks will give you video chat and messaging, your face on your gamerpicture for your profile, you will be able to get your face in certain games like rainbow six vegas, so when you are on xbox live the face of your guy will be your actuall face looking like it was already on the disc when you got it. and on games like uno and poker and others you have motion caption where when you move your arms or change your expression on your face then in the game it will show you what you are doing. and other people on xbox live that are playing see you doing that. talk about having to use your poker face there. and the vision is crystall clear considering i was playing uno and somebody joined the room and was using that since he was a beta tester i guess because it is not released yet. and of course you get to do games like the playstation eye toy could do. so i dont think that you can get that on your PC. :D

[red47]

Pc will win in the console war! Yarrr!

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Of course.

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The PC is not a console in case you were being serious.

[red47]

I'd be more worried about this.

 

"How many games in the first year will use this new functionality?" [Referring to the PS3 gyrocrap]

 

Harrison: I expect that every game will use this functionality. We move the controller all the time when we play already, but now we can control how we play when we move the controller along with using the analog sticks as normal as well. That is a feature that only the Playstation 3 will be able to provide.

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F' him, he doesn't speak for everyone. <_<

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I agree, that guy does not speak for everyone, when i play i keep my controller still when i play, i dont wave it around like a dying fish. i guess the good thing for sony is that people will have the controller fly out of there hands and have to buy i new one since it probally wont be that durable. i have droped my 360 controller on the floor about a hundred times on the kitchen tile and the carpet since i take it with me when i walk around to get my food. also the controller does not interfere with other appliances in the house and playstations controller will since they said it wont. and also sony overpromises, so dont expect to be getting what they say.

Edited June 4, 2006 by red47

[Craigboy2]

People, people. The difficulty of using the X amount of threads are not going to make or break the console's success. The PS2 was way more difficult to write code for than the PS3, but it didn't stop it from selling 100 million copies worldwide.

 

A console's success is determined by (courtesy of Meshugger's very insightful and delicate understanding of the market) the following factors:

 

- Games.

- More games, better games, and a big library of them.

- Hype, style and understanding of the target audience. (What's cool? What's hip?)

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Wrong, only two things affect the amount that's sold.

-Advertising

-Past experiences with the company.

[Craigboy2]

I'd be more worried about this.

 

"How many games in the first year will use this new functionality?" [Referring to the PS3 gyrocrap]

 

Harrison: I expect that every game will use this functionality. We move the controller all the time when we play already, but now we can control how we play when we move the controller along with using the analog sticks as normal as well. That is a feature that only the Playstation 3 will be able to provide.

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F' him, he doesn't speak for everyone. <_<

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I agree, that guy does not speak for everyone, when i play i keep my controller still when i play, i dont wave it around like a dying fish. i guess the good thing for sony is that people will have the controller fly out of there hands and have to buy i new one since it probally wont be that durable. i have droped my 360 controller on the floor about a hundred times on the kitchen tile and the carpet since i take it with me when i walk around to get my food. also the controller does not interfere with other appliances in the house and playstations controller will since they said it wont. and also sony overpromises, so dont expect to be getting what they say.

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It also won't vibrate when you ram into another car...

[red47]

also dont forget, if you want to play kotor III, you wont be on playstation or revolution. and that is obsidianents biggest games, and that is one of the big reasons you are on this website.

Edited June 4, 2006 by red47

[red47]

I'd be more worried about this.

 

"How many games in the first year will use this new functionality?" [Referring to the PS3 gyrocrap]

 

Harrison: I expect that every game will use this functionality. We move the controller all the time when we play already, but now we can control how we play when we move the controller along with using the analog sticks as normal as well. That is a feature that only the Playstation 3 will be able to provide.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

F' him, he doesn't speak for everyone. <_<

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I agree, that guy does not speak for everyone, when i play i keep my controller still when i play, i dont wave it around like a dying fish. i guess the good thing for sony is that people will have the controller fly out of there hands and have to buy i new one since it probally wont be that durable. i have droped my 360 controller on the floor about a hundred times on the kitchen tile and the carpet since i take it with me when i walk around to get my food. also the controller does not interfere with other appliances in the house and playstations controller will since they said it wont. and also sony overpromises, so dont expect to be getting what they say.

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It also won't vibrate when you ram into another car...

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That's also true.

[Deraldin]

also dont forget, if you want to play kotor III, you wont be on playstation or revolution.  and that is obsidianents biggest games, and that is one of the big reasons you are on this website.

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That's why we have PC's.