NWN 2 DM Client will not ship with the game

[Bokishi]

YES BLAME THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS ON ATARI

[karka]

"Depends if they dedicate a live team to it or not similar to what Bio is doing. With income flowing in from DD content, they could keep the game supported for everyone, even those who won't buy a single DD mod."

 

Honestly, I doubt it. I don't think they're interested in supporting those who plan to use the game besdies those who buy it just for the OC. Obsidian has made it clear the 10-30% of buyers who do play the game outside of the OC simply aren't that important.

 

They'll make the campaign great (I hope). They'll patch once or twice. And, that's it, barring another official in store expansion.

 

I don't see them 'wasting time' on a Live Team when only a 'handful' of customers take advantage of it.

 

Afterall, as successful as the DD BIO modules have apparantly been, I doubt BIO has gotten rich off them 'cause only the hardcore NWN players buy them - not the majority of players who buy a game, play the camapign once, and then move.

 

I'll be pleasantly surprised now if I wa sproven wrong about this. I was very optimistic before.

 

P.S. Like i said, I'm still buying the game, 'cause it will likely be worth it in my view, but people ar ekididng themselves if they think that obsidian views NWN2 as a long term product like BIO obviously viewed NWN1. Not too surprising considering that BIo had to fight tooth and nail just to get the game released while Obsidian had a million + seller handed to them. It's not 'theirs' so to speak.

 

The campaign will rock at least... as long as nothing else is cut... :ph34r:

 

 

P.S.S. Crap. I'm sounding way too pessmistic now.... Too negative. That was *not* my intent when I first heard the news. LOL :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

May be Bio's Live Team will support NWN 2. Who knows?

Edited May 12, 2006 by karka

[Volourn]

Screw the world! Creation! Heck, I'm sure Atari runs Hell itself!!!

 

 

"May be Bio's Live Team support NWN 2. Who knows?"

 

Why? They're still supporting NWN1 including, most likely, future modules and possibly even 1 more patch.

 

Plus, NWN2 isn't BIo's game or responsibility. It's Obsidian and Atari's.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Volourn

[Dark_Raven]

Screw the world! Creation! Heck, I'm sure Atari runs Hell itself!!!

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I should hope not, heaven would look so much better if they did.

[StillLife]

I don't really care about the online stuff anyway, but it's still lame especially when considering the single-player sounds like a mini campaign. I wouldn't place all if any of the blame on Atari, Feargus has always seemed determined to only work within short development cycles. It's going to bite them in the ass eventually.

 

Interview with FU

 

I'm a big believer in short production cycles and not just the standpoint that you can make games fast, but more the standpoint that you learn the most when you go through a full production cycle, so if you make a game over forty-eight months then you you're only learning every forty-eight months. Not exactly, but I think you can learn more if you ship a game every eighteen months.

 

People appreciate games that are finished, that's an important lesson to learn.

Edited May 12, 2006 by StillLife

[Jumjalum]

DM Client is the part of the game. Not an additional software. So it's something like releasing a single player game without some chapters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ehh not really. Anyone looking for a single player game won't even notice the difference. The toolset will be there for module builders so they wont need to complain about not having the tools. The DM client will be released in time I assume since Atari will be financing patches whereas Lucasarts weren't too bothered about KotOR2. Would you detractors really rather having none of the game until the DM client is ready than having the SP game plus toolset untill it's good to go?

[Hassat Hunter]

Yeah... Let's ship the game unfinished... hell, let's put in 40 Game-breaking bugs in the SP-story... WE CAN FIX IT LATER IN THE PATCH. But first we will make a competition who first finds and reports all 40. As a reward that person get's to Beta-test our patch for these 40 bugs we already knew but only fixed after they were found all 40 because damn hell if we did it ourselves. Cut out the latest 2 chapters and sell them online for $2.49 a piece will totally rock too!

Most people won't even get so far anyways... so they won't really notice!

 

I find it funny to note Lare Kikkeli and Llyranor don't mind the release of bug-ridden and/or half-finished games; which made the game's market as it is now and then later on whine about the current gamemarket and why we get half-arsed and bug ridden games!

 

*sigh*

Edited May 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Volourn]

"Ehh not really. Anyone looking for a single player game won't even notice the difference. The toolset will be there for module builders so they wont need to complain about not having the tools. The DM client will be released in time I assume since Atari will be financing patches whereas Lucasarts weren't too bothered about KotOR2. Would you detractors really rather having none of the game until the DM client is ready than having the SP game plus toolset untill it's good to go? "

 

Most anyone looking to play the single palyer only do so once and tend to do it with humans, and elves (and possibly dwarves) so they shouldn't bother including gnomes, halflings, and half-orcs til a patch either.

 

 

10-30% of the NWN/NWN2 population uses the Dm client... about 2% (or less uses gnomes and halflings)... that's a big chunk.

 

And, getting the DM Client in a later free patch is not the same as having it in game. Once we purchase NWN2 in stores with the knowledge that the DM Client isn't part of the package... they NO LONGER have any obligation to give it to us. At all.

 

That's why, for me, the idela situation is for them to do their best to get it in there even if it means delaying it. It's like them saying out of 30 hours of the OC, 10 hours can't be done with quality so we'll release the other 20 hours and they let you download the remaining 10 hours in a patch.

 

LOLOLOLLIPOP

[StillLife]

Ehh not really.  Anyone looking for a single player game won't even notice the difference.  The toolset will be there for module builders so they wont need to complain about not having the tools.  The DM client will be released in time I assume since Atari will be financing patches whereas Lucasarts weren't too bothered about KotOR2.  Would you detractors really rather having none of the game until the DM client is ready than having the SP game plus toolset untill it's good to go?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

From a purely selfish perspective, I don't care. As someone who plays and buys games, I think it's a bad decision in the grand scheme of things. Considering a large number of people like NWN for all it's multiplayer features and aren't overly concerned about single-player, it's not good for them.

[Jumjalum]

Most anyone looking to play the single palyer only do so once and tend to do it with humans, and elves (and possibly dwarves) so they shouldn't bother including gnomes, halflings, and half-orcs til a patch either.

 

But the single player (and module building) experience will be completely unaffected by the non-inclusion of the DM client. It's not as black & white as you make it sound, you can enjoy one area of the game without having the other one there. Are you planning on playing the OC whilst building modules whilst DMing MP games whilst playing the piano with your toes?

[Oerwinde]

I play the official campaign and any cool looking or highly rated single player modules. I also like to fiddle around with the toolset. Multiplayer doesn't interest me, so they could just cut the DM client alltogether and I wouldn't notice.

[Hassat Hunter]

Damn, This is a reply to Jumjalum (that other post sneaked between):

 

So just cause YOU play SP the people who want to play MP should go **** off?

 

Get real; there is more to the world than you. There are people who play online. Let them have their thing, if you don't use it bad luck.

 

Let's take for example UT2K4 and then scrap MP (main feature) from release. Would the people be happy to buy it even if it is perfectly playable on all fronts in SP? Don't think so...

 

NWN2 starts to sound worse and worse...

Edited May 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Volourn]

Hassat, nothingw rong with people feeling this way. At least people ar ebeing honest here - they're selfish. It's all about them.

 

That's the way I feel too. The DM Client is simply a part of NWN:The Game tm. No matter of exuses made can say otherwise plus if Obsidian is welling to cut this (and, that's what this is, as they don't owe it to us to release the DM Client in the patch when we buy the game in stores w/o it); I'm sure they'll willing to cut some cool SP stuff as well.

 

 

"But the single player (and module building) experience will be completely unaffected by the non-inclusion of the DM client"

 

Wrong. It does effect it. The DM Client is part of the NWN game. It's what makes NWN REAL D&D while every other D&D game like TOEE, BG, and the GB games are pretenders to the thrown.

 

That's ok. NWN2 will be worthy of 2-3 playthroughs - just like NWN OC, BG, IWD, and so.... as long as more things aren't cut.

 

Let's also forget about extensive post release support as well.

 

 

P.S. Again, nothing wrong with beings elfish. I'm selfish too. I want it ALL. And, with the DM Client possibly being released in a patch only, I won't own it nor will Obsidan be obligated to release it at all.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Volourn

[Jumjalum]

Damn, This is a reply to Jumjalum (that other post sneaked between):

 

So just cause YOU play SP the people who want to play MP should go **** off?

 

What's the difference between that and holding the release of the SP campaign off till the DM Client is ready?

 

Nothing is being scrapped, it's all going to be released and I for one would rather have the majority of the game in september then the rest in the coming months than wait for the whole period with nothing.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Jumjalum

[Hassat Hunter]

Let's also forget about extensive post release support as well.

 

NO, NO... We need extensive longtime support after release...

 

As long as it only fixes SP-issues ofcourse and does not fix/alter anything with the other stuff like DM client or Toolkit "

 

What's the difference between that and holding the release of the SP campaign off till the DM Client is ready?

 

Because then all get what they want and none get their priviledges in expense of the other group? It's like starting a match of BF2 and let one team start with aimbots and wallhacks and then remove them when 3/4 is played...

Edited May 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Kaftan Barlast]

The original NWN2 campaign is strictly single player, and as it will take some months before any quality modules are ready, not having the DM client available from startoff is not such a bad thing even if its inconvenent that it wont be inlcuded on the game disc.

[Volourn]

You are right. It's not a bad thing. It's a HORRIBLE thing. Almost as bad as them cancelling dwarves or 'postponing their own inclusion 'til an expansion' since most people don't use 'em...

Edited May 12, 2006 by Volourn

[Hassat Hunter]

We don't need the toolkit for the SP-campaign... and maybe we can reduce the shipping time with a day or 20 if we supply it in a patch.

 

After all it takes a few months before quality mods come and the toolkit is needed...hey, wait a second...that doesn't make sense! "

[Jumjalum]

Let's also forget about extensive post release support as well.

 

NO, NO... We need extensive longtime support after release...

 

As long as it only fixes SP-issues ofcourse and does not fix/alter anything with the other stuff like DM client or Toolkit "

 

What's the difference between that and holding the release of the SP campaign off till the DM Client is ready?

 

Because then all get what they want and none get their priviledges in expense of the other group? It's like starting a match of BF2 and let one team start with aimbots and wallhacks and then remove them when 3/4 is played...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the game isn't going to survive long without a DM client anyway so I don't think it's a huge issue. But the DM client relies on the OC (until some decent modules are made), the OC doesn't rely on anything so why not release it and the tools when they're ready?

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the game is going to come out this way like it or not so you might as well be content with the OC + toolset for a month or two. Sure, it's selfish but I'll be pretty happy with it...I don't have any friends to MP with anyway.

[karka]

I remember that, they(Obsidian) mentioned a feature which allows us to download modules by using game's module download system.(or something like that) It sounded cool.

 

What about that? Did you cut it too Obsidian?

[Volourn]

Of course. Most people won't use it anyways. Or halflings. or gnomes. Or the identify spell. Or the rapier. Or the light crossbow. And, the list goes on. Hardly anyone plays campaigns the 'evil way' so let's cancel that. They do that, I'm sure they can get the game out next month.

 

HOORAY!

[Hassat Hunter]

We ESPECIALLY need to cut the easter eggs.

 

No point in making something fun now is there?

Besides that not everybody may reach them and if they do we can always add in dev. notes saying "see it in a patch or 2"

Edited May 12, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Volourn]

"We ESPECIALLY need to cut the easter eggs."

 

Yeah, only 3.75% of the gamers ever notice them! That's far less than the 10-30% that use/take advantage of the DM Client.

 

(w00t)

[Spider]

cancelling dwarves

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's a good thing tho...

 

We don't need the toolkit for the SP-campaign... and maybe we can reduce the shipping time with a day or 20 if we supply it in a patch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I honestly don't see the big deal here. Under the assumption that the tool kit will be produced, we have two possibilities:

 

1: The game gets released on time, say in september, and the DM client gets released a while, say a month, afterwards.

 

2: The whole game is delayed until the DM client is ready and gets released in october.

 

With option 1, if the toolkit is what makes or breaks the game for you, you can just wait a month before you buy it and it will be virtually identical for you as if the game was released as described in option 2. The only thing that differs is that those who don't give a damn about the DM client will have the option of getting the game in september.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Volourns argument that if it's not in the game at release they may not do it at all is more understandable, but I personally don't think that'll come to pass.

[Jumjalum]

Of course. Most people won't use it anyways. Or halflings. or gnomes. Or the identify spell. Or the rapier. Or the light crossbow. And, the list goes on. Hardly anyone plays campaigns the 'evil way' so let's cancel that.  They do that, I'm sure they can get the game out next month.

 

HOORAY!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fine, I'll be playing a LG Paladin with an unidentified hammer tomorrow!

Edited May 12, 2006 by Jumjalum