KOTOR 2 purposely making fun of Lucas's ideas?

[DeathScepter]

Revan is one tough bastard.

 

 

He did surived being blown up by his former appentrie and surive long enough to be "saved" by the Jedi

[Jediphile]

Unless you take into account that others subjected to this instinctual reaction expecienced another instinctual reaction, you know the pattern, "Nnnnoooooooo!!! I won't give away the Force! I'm powerless without it! It's better to die!" The Force is like a drug: it makes you feel something normal people don't, once you start using it, it is increasingly difficult to cope with being cut off from it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is little evidence to support that theory. Don't get me wrong, it does make sense, but we just don't know, and in any event, I do believe that falls under just the sort of temptations that jedi are trained to resist in the first place.

 

Don't forget the circumstances at Malachor V were, to an extent, unique. Not many Force-sensitives ever experienced what he did. When they were exposed to such an echo in the Force as Malachor, did they suffer the same instinctual reaction? Quite possibly. But they died where Exile survived, as they considered giving away both their life and the Force less painful than just the Force.

You mention other Jedi at Malachor who either died or went to the dark side. Exile was different from them in exactly one thing: he was the one to activate the MSG. Therefore, the Force retaliated on him alone, not on the others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think so. First, I don't think that the fact that the Exile activated the MSG has as much significance as you seem to think, and secondly, we already know that all the other jedi at Malachor V either died or fell to the dark side, so the events certainly had impact on them as well.

 

As for the Jedi Masters: are we speaking about the same paranoid Jedi Masters who murdered their own Padawans due to the fear that one of them would succumb to the dark side,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What? Where do you get that from??

 

the same Masters who allowed the Mandalorians to accumulate the strength for the Mandalorian Wars, who watched silently as the Mandalorians crushed the Republic, who were too afraid to investigate what really happened on Malachor,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The masters saw a lot of risks down the road, and as Bastila tells us in K1, the masters would have intervened at some point, except Revan forced the issue and split the order. Given the fallout of the Mandalorian Wars, the masters' fears seem more than justified. I do agree that their choice is debatable, though. As for Malachor, what was there to explore? The planet was pretty much destroyed at the end of the Mandalorian Wars, and the masters had no idea that the Trayus academy was hidden there. Indeed, only Revan (and obviously Kreia) seems to have been aware of it.

 

who sentenced Exile for crimes he didn't commit

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He did defy the jedi order by joining Revan, and as you point out yourself, he was the one to activate the MSG.

 

- only, in their opinion, could commit, and never did,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He had already committed two serious crimes in their opinion.

 

who could not foresee and prevent the disaster on Katarr,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Who could? Not knowing about Malachor and the Sith working from the shadows, it's not surprising that they were taken by surprise.

 

 

and who, finally, all of a sudden changed their position on Exile from benevolent (after he spent so much effort on stabilizing the Republic) to hostile?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think that's mostly down to bad storytelling. At least I think so for Kavar and, especially, Zez-Kai Ell, who seem quite understanding of the Exile's position in K2 when you meet them individually (particularly Zez-Kai Ell).

 

Still, given the danger the Exile represented to the force, I do understand their motives. I don't agree with their decision, but I do understand their reasons.

 

And now these Masters, who never knew anything about what happened to Exile, what caused him to do what he did, and what life he lived in the Outer Rim after they sentenced him for the first time, dare to judge him. I don't dare to judge them, but I think it's rather hard to come up with rational judgment in this situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree more with you here. It's too bad that Zez-Kai Ell's motives were just written out of the final meeting with the masters on Dantooine, because Zez-Kai Ell has some good points:

 

"Perhaps the Council, perhaps the Order itself had grown arrogant in their teachings. It is easy to cast blame, but it is perhaps time the Order accepted responsibility for their teachings, and their arrogance, and come to recognize that perhaps we are flawed.Not once did I hear one of the Council claim responsibility for Revan, for Exar Kun, for Ulic, for Malak... or for you. Yet... you were the only one who came back from the wars to face our judgment. And rather than attempting to understand why you did what you did, we punished you instead. Our one chance to see where we had gone wrong, and we cast it aside. And now, that decision has come back to us, and may carry with it, our destruction. Perhaps there is something wrong in us, in our teachings. And though I tried, I could not cause that thought to leave me - so I left the Council."

[DeathScepter]

the Massarce of the Padawans is in the comics and It does begins Zayne's jounery.

 

 

 

Zayne is possibly Nihilus(me) or The Exile(rumors I heard)

[Jediphile]

the Massarce of the Padawans is in the comics and It does begins Zayne's jounery.

 

 

 

Zayne is possibly Nihilus(me) or The Exile(rumors I heard)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know those comic books, but those masters have nothing to do with the masters we see in K1 or K2.

 

And the thought of Zayne being Nihilus is just scary

 

Please no - I'd loose the last bit of awe I have for Nihilus!

[DeathScepter]

In my mind, it is a dark scary place where logic and chaos are friends.

 

Remember They are going to reveal Nihilus's past someday.

 

 

Right now, I can write a great backstory for Nihilus's past.

 

 

 

Just say, Nihilus is formerly handsome and his dead feature still contain his former self.

 

Just say, In Life he could pass as a Greek god.

 

 

Pale skin, blue eyes and jet black hair were some of his features in life.

 

 

My unmasked verison of Nihilus is an unscarred verison of Sion but twice as drained look to him.

 

Just say, he still has his handsome feature but he is totally drained of life.

 

A Walking Dead is what Nihilus should look like if he returns.

[Mellypie]

A Walking Dead is what Nihilus should look like if he returns.

 

It's been done. **coughSioncough**

[Xard]

Hmm...propably not Exile. A: Exile wa stronger than average, Zayre isn't. B: It would destroy whole "create your Exile" thing. I won't care about canonical character definations, but looks etc too...

 

Nihilus on other hand...good idea

[Sikon]

It would destroy whole "create your Exile" thing.

They already destroyed it, in a sense, by introducing canonical genders for Revan and (soon to be revealed) Exile.

[Xard]

It would destroy whole "create your Exile" thing.

They already destroyed it, in a sense, by introducing canonical genders for Revan and (soon to be revealed) Exile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Canonical character are because of CONTIUNITY.

 

Luke studies old jedi tomes: Revan was powerful jedi. He pwned siths, but then she became Dark lord and pwned all until he hit to star with Ebon Hawk and died. Then Exile came and destroyed M 5 with MSG but he saved M 5 because she was Dark lord of the sith and after that he kissed Brianna and jumped to pit full with gizkas. They tored him apart, but then she went after Revan to UR and he hitted star too

Edited April 27, 2006 by Xard

[Jediphile]

Nihilus on other hand...good idea

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooo..... !!!

[DeathScepter]

To MellyPie: I was thinking about the Walking Dead part for Nihilus while keeping his vampiric nature.

 

I mean having Nihilus looking drained in color and paleish in color while looking quite what handsome, much like Dracula like.

 

 

just saying, Nihilus having a dracula style moreso.

 

 

Well Vrook and Vandar said that the Exile was an average student of the force.

 

 

Only when after M5 and Pergasus, Exile became more powerful.

[Darth Blivion]

The full quote is: "average student of the force but with a unique strength". Plus Kavar goes on to mention that the Exile as a padawan had a very strong connection to the force. So this Zayre can't be the exile.

 

Also, I 've always taken "average student of the force" to mean that he wasn't a stand out padawan learner though he was definitely always strong in the force. The reasons why he was viewed as an average padawan learner may be because he wasn't too keen on playing the model student. I mean, there is a hint that he was the rebellious type.

[Sikon]

For the last time: Zayne is not Exile. Nor is he Revan, any of Exile's visions, Carth, Atton, Bastila, or anyone else you may have in mind. Zayne is just that: Zayne.

[Jediphile]

For the last time: Zayne is not Exile. Nor is he Revan, any of Exile's visions, Carth, Atton, Bastila, or anyone else you may have in mind. Zayne is just that: Zayne.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So what you're saying is that Zayne is Zayne?

 

Or is Zayne just sane...