Communism

[Elven6]

Your just repeating the rebellion theory for most of the posts

 

Also the Hitler drug thing was just a joke

 

Besides alot of Political leaders in Russia are saying the fall of the Soviet Union was a bad thing.

 

Hows that for saftey when your leader gives up!

Edited March 16, 2006 by Elven6

[taks]

hey guys... everyone knows i'm the neighborhood uber steroidal capitalist cheerleader, so i'm not going to go into any comparisons for the moment or even good v. bad arguments.

 

however, one point that has been missed is that communism does not fail because of the people that implement it. that is a fallacy. most people in any communist/socialist (by most i mean 99.99999%) actually strive hard to make them work.

 

unfortunately, communism fails because it has no mechanism to adjust for demand. capitalism adjusts for demand automatically by adjusting prices. something is in demand, prices go up. less demand results in reduced prices.

 

also note, that socialism and communism are identical in an economic sense. the only difference is communism claims that the government is only necessary till utopia is reached, at which point the government will be done away with. socialism does not lie like that and maintains that the tyranny will be required forever.

 

taks

[metadigital]

however, one point that has been missed is that communism ... fails because it has no mechanism to adjust for demand.  capitalism adjusts for demand automatically by adjusting prices.  something is in demand, prices go up.  less demand results in reduced prices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe my invigorating illustration of the farmer touched on that very concept, back on page four. ^_^

[Elven6]

Taks to respond to your comment on the demand situation

 

We could have seen that fixed if the Soviet Union did not fall, Mikhail Gorbachev was restructuring the Union, he dealt with this but not to a full extent, he allowed private business to work which was a start

[julianw]

the condition of man does not allow for such a system to exist in fact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Though a system similar to communism did exist during the early ages of man when the tribes shared all the food hunted or collected equally among all the tribal members. It's one of the reasons that Marx believed that such a system could exist once again. I guess in those early days, the constant struggle to survive in harsh environments with limited tools suppressed man's lust for luxury. But in today's world, where we are constantly seeking new ways to make our lives more gratifying, how is getting an equal share of the pie no matter the amount of efforts you put into your life ever going to satisfy us?

 

As for the depression followed by the collapse of USSR, don't blame it on democracy but on instability.

 

@taks - There is no such thing as demand in communism since I believe that Ferraris and Rolexes would be raining from the skies.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Comminism can exist in small units but not on a large scale since people cease to give a crap about each other.

[Plano Skywalker]

....

unfortunately, communism fails because it has no mechanism to adjust for demand.  capitalism adjusts for demand automatically by adjusting prices.  something is in demand, prices go up.  less demand results in reduced prices.

....

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

that is, indeed, ONE of its fundamental flaws. under such a system, the guy who makes 6" nails makes them whether there is a demand for them or not, thus taking up warehouse space, etc.

 

of course, the same could be said for unions...they generally want to define what it is that they do (and will do and even HOW they do it and under what circumstances) regardless of the business requirement.

[Elven6]

That goes back to "Plato's Paradise", like I said before a poor country could prosper with Communism.

 

If you do some research you will find out the fall of the Soviet Union also had a American hand in it. I belive this was on the Discovery Channel a while ago.

[WITHTEETH]

Comminism can exist in small units but not on a large scale since people cease to give a crap about each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahhh, Shadow good objection.

 

I am a commie at heart. And i also see this as a major problem. This and the totallitarian ruling of the state seems worrysum to me.

[julianw]

that is, indeed, ONE of its fundamental flaws.  under such a system, the guy who makes 6" nails makes them whether there is a demand for them or not, thus taking up warehouse space, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be a flaw under pure socialism since in communism, there is infinite warehouse space and eveybody has a magic bag where you can pull out anything you'd like.

[WITHTEETH]

That goes back to "Plato's Paradise", like I said before a poor country could prosper with Communism.

 

If you do some research you will find out the fall of the Soviet Union also had a American hand in it. I belive this was on the Discovery Channel a while ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Platos Philospher kings reminds me of the pope.

[Elven6]

"If life gives you lemons make juice"

 

With a huge stock of nails they could make buildings, run down to your nearest Home Depot, they would be a big customer of that nail maker.

[julianw]

Ahhh, Shadow good objection.

 

I am a commie at heart. And i also see this as a major problem. This and the totallitarian ruling of the state seems worrysum to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still think a healthy mix of capitalism and socialism should be good enough where equal opportunity is provided to everyone; in the end, if you put forth hard work you will prosper.

[Plano Skywalker]

"If life gives you lemons make juice"

 

With a huge stock of nails they could make buildings, run down to your nearest Home Depot, they would be a big customer of that nail maker.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

or sell them through outlets like Harbor Freight and bring in some good old "hard currency".

[Elven6]

Yeah thats true, Canada has that system, they are a mix of Capitolism and Communism

 

And Plano that just proves my theory about Cuba and the Cigar lol

 

I mean Seinfield probably bought 100s of Cuban's for their Seasons

Edited March 16, 2006 by Elven6

[Plano Skywalker]

I think the best model for (non-totalitarian) Marxism is in the Scandanavian countries.

 

But I also think it helps that they are: 1) net exporters ("hard currency") and 2) homogeneous in almost every aspect of life.

 

Diversity of the populace is one of the practical problems with true socialism.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I still think a healthy mix of capitalism and socialism should be good enough where equal opportunity is provided to everyone; in the end, if you put forth hard work you will prosper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thats the American dream isnt it ?

 

Or you could go on a reality TV show.

[Elven6]

America has to many dreams, like Manifest Destiny and most of them are undoable

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

America has to many dreams, like Manifest Destiny and most of them are undoable

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The reality isnt really important though. It's the perception that if you work hard you can succeed. You may see it as a form of social control if you wish.

 

Once people conclude that no matter how hard they work they are screwed. Then they will "rebel".

[Plano Skywalker]

I actually remember an interview with Fidel Castro (Cigar Afficianado was the interviewer) in which Fidel spoke about how cigars bring "hard currency" into his country.

 

At that moment, I wished I could chime in on the conversation and ask him "So, what makes foreign currency "hard"? Why is your currency worthless? Communism does not work?"

[Elven6]

"In The Soviet Amry it takes more courage to retreat then it does to attack" Joseph Stalin

 

This ideology save the USSR from the Nazi's retreating would get you killed so why not advance!

 

Well the point is these soilders knew they were screwed but they didn't rebel, if they did their would be no present day Russia or much Communism really.

[julianw]

I still think a healthy mix of capitalism and socialism should be good enough where equal opportunity is provided to everyone; in the end, if you put forth hard work you will prosper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thats the American dream isnt it ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, that's exactly what I was thinking since I am an immigrant. (And if I am more grateful, I would be thanking Thomas Jefferson and George Washington every day.)

[Elven6]

You can thank him but what about the Facist government you live under?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

"In The Soviet Amry it takes more courage to retreat then it does to attack" Joseph Stalin

 

This ideology save the USSR from the Nazi's retreating would get you killed so why not advance!

 

Well the point is these soilders knew they were screwed but they didn't rebel, if they did their would be no present day Russia or much Communism really.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Americans dont shoot rebels.

 

Thats why the commisars were there to shoot anyone going the other way.

[Elven6]

If Stalin lead the army which is in Afganistan, under his rule they would have found Bin Laden

 

Of course he would sit back and laugh since America created Bin Laden in order to destory the Soviet Union

 

Shadow, Americans torture Rebels, they shoot bystanders