Magic vs. Technology

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It has to start somewhere. They still need to discover that energy and matter are interchangeable.

 

Humans are so primitive. 

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Yep apparently you will be the controller in the same sort of system that the Revolution uses to sense motion and movement in 3d.

 

Somehow I dont see it being a home device. The technology is all there so it's feasable but dosnt appear particularly practical.

[astr0creep]

It has to start somewhere. They still need to discover that energy and matter are interchangeable.

 

Humans are so primitive. 

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Yep apparently you will be the controller in the same sort of system that the Revolution uses to sense motion and movement in 3d.

 

Somehow I dont see it being a home device. The technology is all there so it's feasable but dosnt appear particularly practical.

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Theme parks and conventions material.

 

I saw a documentary a few months ago. It was similar to what you described except it was a sphere in which the user is harnessed and the walls of the sphere a flat screens and the entire thing could fit in a living room, albeit a large living room.

[metadigital]

Isn't this how science and technology works? It's been "proven" that all the tech in Star Trek is theoretically possible. How many scientists are currently working on warp drive tech or phaser tech or teleportation or, best of all, a holodeck? Those are all currently researched technologies and they are all from Star Trek.

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Um, forget teleportation, in our lifetime. (Even then, forget trying to convince me to do it.)

 

Assuming it were possible to detect and record every atomic particle of a human being (which it isn't, according to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle), it would take more energy than (iirc) the sun discharges over several (hours / days / months - can't remember, but it was more than is feasible to store) and a lens with a focal length greater than the Earth's diameter to detect the particles which are sub-visible lengths of lightwave).

 

Warp drive may be possible in a different form, certainly ain't going to get anything bigger than a small molecule to reach the speed of light, let alone a ship.

 

Time Travel? :|

About 10 years ago, me and a friend we wanted to start a PnP game in the Star Trek universe. We tried basing our system on D&D and it mostly worked quite well. Our main problem came with magic vs. science. Magic is like chaotic imagination. You can come up with anything and call it magic. With science, you MUST explain it. That limited our "science powers" pool as we didn't have the scientific knowledge to invent new sciences or confirm theories. Not enough to make a good PnP out of it anyway. All we had were classes like engineer or science officers and command but had almost no feats or skills for those. Not enough to make a game. We went nuts with the potential of space though...

 

All I'm saying is that science in games is limited by the capabilities of the writers to explain the theories. you don't have that problem with magic.

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But advanced science is no more explainable than magic, to someone unfamiliar with th technology.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

- Clarke's Third Law

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Try explaining how a refrigerator works to a medieval serf.

[astr0creep]

Not long ago, scientists were able to teleport a single atom. It was last year and I think they were Canadians or Australians.

 

Also, getting off this rock and explore might allow us to find new sources of energy and new minerals that would make it possible to build those trekky dreams. Then again, in order to explore, we need those trekky dreams...

[metadigital]

One atom (are you sure it wasn't a tachyon?) is a slightly different scale to a ship. Off hand I think there are a few hundred atoms, at least, in a space shuttle.

 

Lots of E required to accelerate that mass. Lots of E to accelerate the fuel required for the E to accelerate that mass. Etc.

 

Best bet is someone pops out of a quantum singularity and offers it to humans, for free and for altruistic reasons. /fantasy.

[alanschu]

Not long ago, scientists were able to teleport a single atom. It was last year and I think they were Canadians or Australians. 

 

Also, getting off this rock and explore might allow us to find new sources of energy and new minerals that would make it possible to build those trekky dreams. Then again, in order to explore, we need those trekky dreams... 

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If we get off the rock, where are we going to go? The closest star is over 4 light years away. And then we'd have to hope that there's a planet there that is habitable. Alpha Centauri A is at least the right type of star...though there's that annoying Alpha Centauri B that will likely screw things up. Not sure how many habitable planets a twin star system could have.

 

Proxima Centauri is a little closer, but way too hot.

 

We better figure out how to start warping Space Time. But to be honest, I think we'd have to learn how to terraform a planet like Venus first. This way if we go somewhere and there's a planet that is close to what we need, we can at least do something with it.

 

I don't see us colonizing other worlds anytime soon though. At best maybe using resources from off our planet.

[astr0creep]

Maybe we just need a little magic. Or a lot.

[alanschu]

I'd say the limit of n, as n -> infinity amount of magic.

[Darque]

Not long ago, scientists were able to teleport a single atom. It was last year and I think they were Canadians or Australians. 

 

Also, getting off this rock and explore might allow us to find new sources of energy and new minerals that would make it possible to build those trekky dreams. Then again, in order to explore, we need those trekky dreams... 

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If we get off the rock, where are we going to go? The closest star is over 4 light years away. And then we'd have to hope that there's a planet there that is habitable. Alpha Centauri A is at least the right type of star...though there's that annoying Alpha Centauri B that will likely screw things up. Not sure how many habitable planets a twin star system could have.

 

Proxima Centauri is a little closer, but way too hot.

 

We better figure out how to start warping Space Time. But to be honest, I think we'd have to learn how to terraform a planet like Venus first. This way if we go somewhere and there's a planet that is close to what we need, we can at least do something with it.

 

I don't see us colonizing other worlds anytime soon though. At best maybe using resources from off our planet.

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Mars could be colonized.

 

Space habitats could work (we'd need stronger materials and ways to deflect impacts though)

 

The astroid belt between mars and jupiter most likely has enough resources to do darn near anything in it.

 

We NEED to get into space.. and soon.

[alanschu]

The combined mass of our asteroid belt is less than the mass of our moon. I remember thinking the same thing as you with respect to the Asteroid belt's usefulness, but I did a report on colonizing the solar system in one of my Astronomy classes and it was quite an eye opener.

 

 

Ceres is the largest asteroid, and it has a mass less than 1% of the moon. IIRC the numbers indicate that the combined mass is about 1/30 of our moon.

[Plano Skywalker]

I think "space exploration" will happen but it will be about temporary (or rotating membership) mining operations.

 

The movie Total Recall (minus the alien stuff) is actually a good example of how it might play out....spend a few years mining Mars and then come back and retire or find another vocation.

 

I don't see anybody just darting off into the Unknown *hoping* to find something.

[alanschu]

IIRC Mars has ice caps that would be useful for oxygen and water. I believe the moon also has water at its poles.

[Darque]

I don't see anybody just darting off into the Unknown *hoping* to find something.

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You're kidding, right?

 

Age of Exploration: Remember that phase of human existance?

[Plano Skywalker]

I don't see anybody just darting off into the Unknown *hoping* to find something.

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You're kidding, right?

 

Age of Exploration: Remember that phase of human existance?

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the Spanish funded Columbus's voyage not to find a new world but to find a new spice trading route (to circumvent Arab middlemen)....governments do things for pragmatic reasons and it would take government sponsorship to do anything that involved a manned mission outside of this solar system.

 

to go to Alpha Centuri, we are talking about bringing plants along so we can keep recycling Oxygen for 4 years (assuming we could even reach light speed).

 

even if it was possible, it would take enormous funding.

[Darque]

You honestly believe columbus was the only explorer, and that the spanish were the only nation with intrest?

[Plano Skywalker]

You honestly believe columbus was the only explorer, and that the spanish were the only nation with intrest? 

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no

[Darque]

I guess I focused on the wrong part then, sorry

 

For the record though, not all exploration has been government funded.

[alanschu]

I remember reading up about an interesting experiment for creating a Biosphere. Sounds like a common theory at the moment is that we'd have to create one in space, and perhaps use a sail to harness the solar wind to get speed. The beauty about space is that once you have some speed, you don't really lose it very easily. But it would be a loooong trip, and would require a self contained Biosphere. The only experiment I know of was Biosphere II which ultimately required oxygen to be pumped in from the outside.

[Plano Skywalker]

I guess I focused on the wrong part then, sorry

 

For the record though, not all exploration has been government funded.

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I think the analogy holds for what we are talking about here.

[Gabrielle]

In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

[metadigital]

IIRC Mars has ice caps that would be useful for oxygen and water.  I believe the moon also has water at its poles.

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Mars has some water. Moon has none. Moon was a par of the Earth, until a big meteor knocked a big chunk into space, so the moon is just a large bit of basalt.

 

Asteroids might have some minerals, but planets and moons would have more, e.g. Saturn's moon Titan and Jupiter's moon Europa would be good terraforming targets; the other moons would be terrific mines, like Io.

 

Outland FTW

[alanschu]

I found a ton of old news clippings about suspected ice on the moon.

 

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/ice/ice_moon.html

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID...4A8809EC588EEDF

http://whyfiles.org/060moons/ourmoon.html

 

Though this more recent article is more skeptical.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4378

[SamuraiGaijin]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Clarke's Third Law"

 

The inverse of the corollary to this is also true ... "Any technology not indistinguishable from magic is not sufficiently advanced."

(One example that comes to mind are the Technomages that made a couple of brief appearances in Babylon 5.)

 

While I prefer technology stay the heck out of my middle-age era fantasy worlds, I like the idea of magic in a technologically advanced society. I think it would be interesting to tech-evolve a typical D&D campaign about three millenia, and incorporate Science Fiction with Traditional Fantasy.

 

In the "cyberpunk" fiction that I have read (mostly classics, like "Neuromancer"), or similar movies (the crap-tacular "Johnny Mnemonic" had an interesting premise), only those belonging to "elite" organizations, those estranged from "mainstream" society, or the filthy rich were dedicated to (and understood, and could use with any real effect) the most advanced tech ... the same could be said of magic in most fantasy settings.

 

I don't think magic and future-tech are necessarily incompatible, but trying to blend magic into relatively modern timeframes never quite seems to work right ... necessity is the mother of invention ... if you don't need a flying machine (because you can buy a flying carpet) why invent one?

[astr0creep]

I would love to play a game in which I am a space explorer who stumbles upon a medieval world and get my a** handed to me by sorcerers and mages.

[Gabrielle]

Not I, I would become one with the mages. Show me ultimate power! Let me learn those fire based spells.