Copyrighten Meterial and TSLRP

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

I thought about this last night:

I have only one major concern for these people, and it may be due to how they advertised. When people say, "Hey have you heard about 'Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords", people are now relating Obsidian's work with the Restoration Project. At Wikipedia's website, The Restoration Project is now being connected to KotOR II and Obsidian. This could generate a big problem.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOTOR_II

 

When an outside group starts to generate credit for work that someone else has started, there could be serious legal issues. Not just from Obsidian, but from LA themselves. They could be waiting until the mod is released to make a move. I could be wrong.

 

Like someone has just said in this thread, "when my friend asks about playing KotOR II, I tell them to wait for the Restoration Project." Now, I am an advertising designer, and I know the law that surounds copywritten material. If someone walks in and restores work that I originally started, and then they become noticed for it, I could legally sue for infractions to the copywrite laws.

 

Because the Restoration Project is being noticed in online articles, blogs, and magazines, they could definatly fall under certain guidelines for infringement. They have hit all main forums, which include Obsidian Ent, Lucas Arts, Bioware, etc...

 

People are now relating the work Obsidian Ent had created to the Restoration Team. Unfortunately, there could be serious backlash when the mod is completed. Like it or not.

 

I have seen posts where the Resoration Team is getting credit for the Cut Content, and there is very little mention about the Obsidian developers. The scale and size of their popularity may cause serious backlash.

 

Eventhough they have a thread here, placed by the moderators, I hope that the developers at Obsidian and LA don't take an offense. One develoepr doesn't stand to how the whole company feels.

 

LA or Obsidian could be waiting for the evidence to show up online. If KotOR III comes out soley on XBox 360 and Playstation 2, this could be their number one reason.

Edited February 4, 2006 by MacLeodCorp

[kirottu]

No, if they don

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

No, if they don

Edited February 3, 2006 by MacLeodCorp

[kirottu]

Dude, almost every game have some sort of cut content and almost always there has been this sort of restoration projects. What there has never been is lawsuits against modders by game company.

 

There could be serious money in a lawsuit like this.

 

No. Bunch of internet geeks have no money.

Edited February 3, 2006 by kirottu

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

Dude, almost every game have some sort of cut content and almost always there has been this sort of restoration projects. What there has never been is lawsuits against modders by game company.

 

There could be serious money in a lawsuit like this.

 

No. Bunch of internet geeks have no money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be honest, I think your stabbing at anything now. From my extensive eperience in the advertising industry (the art end), I can honestly say that my reasoning(mentioned above) can definately occure.

 

Actualy, it will most liekly happen. (Correction: There is only the possibility. Because I don't know how the publisher or developers as a whole think, I cannot really make this statement.)

Edited February 3, 2006 by MacLeodCorp

[kirottu]

Well, get more experince of modding communities and game companies.

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

Well, get more experince of modding communities and game companies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your still stabbing at nothing.

[BattleCookiee]

Sure, there have been sues by some producers, but sofar that has been for putting copyrighted material in an other game than what the original was.

 

Examples: LA and the UT2K4 Star Wars mod, Starcraft mods for RTS by Blizzard etc.

 

And since this is not taking the copyrighted material to put in another game (instead adds it to the original game) what should be the issue?

[kirottu]

Yes, you

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

Sure, there have been sues by some producers, but sofar that has been for putting copyrighted material in an other game than what the original was.

 

Examples: LA and the UT2K4 Star Wars mod, Starcraft mods for RTS by Blizzard etc.

 

And since this is not taking the copyrighted material to put in another game (instead adds it to the original game) what should be the issue?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, this is someone getting wide spread credit for restoring copywtritten material. Otherwords, their popularity is overshadowing the developer's original work.

 

A person can alter an original piece of work, and freely distribute the new piece created from it.

 

A person must alter the original designer's piece of work, and it must not reflect the intent of the original piece.

 

The Restoration Project is restoring allready copywritten meterial. Restoring the meterial is not whats going to be the issue. What will drive the original issue is that they are getting credit on a massive scale, and it is overshadowing the original designer (developer). Otherwords, when someone says 'KotOR II', another person says 'Restoration Project'.

 

After that, everything esle falls into place.

[BattleCookiee]

You cannot blame The Restoration Project or Obsidian for that...

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

You cannot blame The Restoration Project or Obsidian for that...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes they can. Since they pulled the trigger, they could definatly be held responsible. They would be responsible for containment and control of the posted materials. They need to contain the spread of their popularity, and the courts will definately move in LAs favor. Since it was the Restoration Project's announcements that started the fire, (Otherwords, they knew they were posting in places of popularity), they were the first to pull the trigger.

 

They have three strategic threads, which were intentionally placed in polular forums.

 

My posts are intended to say, "BECAREFUL"... Nothing more.

 

Please don't take my posts as trying to start trouble. I am just looking out for this group. They need to make sure they are 100% in the clear.

Edited February 3, 2006 by MacLeodCorp

[alanschu]

You're in advertising now? I thought you were in High School?

 

 

In any case, if Lucasarts wanted to do something about it, they probably already would have. Furthermore, unless the mod team is taking credit for the work of the copyrighted material, what exactly could Lucasarts sue them for?

 

And what would Lucasarts gain from said lawsuit?

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

You're in advertising now?  I thought you were in High School?

 

 

In any case, if Lucasarts wanted to do something about it, they probably already would have.  Furthermore, unless the mod team is taking credit for the work of the copyrighted material, what exactly could Lucasarts sue them for?

 

And what would Lucasarts gain from said lawsuit?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LA has been trying to hit modders for years. This would present a perfect target for them to take action.

 

High School? Where did you get that? I am actually a college student, and advertising designer for two newspapers. I have an extensive online portfolio that is available for clients only. I have created various newspaper and magazine ads. I have produced and published shoppers, brochures, ads, corporate identities, etc...Hehehe...

 

Regardless, at the moment, the mod is not out in distribution. That will be the solid evidance they need. Otherwords, they will wait until the mod's release. LA could have someone pull the mod apart, and then they will present it as evidence.

Edited February 3, 2006 by MacLeodCorp

[kirottu]

Regardless, at the moment, the mod is not out in distribution. That will be the solid evidance they need. Otherwords, they will wait until the mod's release. LA could have someone pull the mod apart, and then they will present it as evidence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just where to get this stuff? If LA or Obsidian has some sort of problem with Restoration Project, they would have simply said so to Team Gizka and put stop to it.

 

Do you honestly think that "they" are just waiting to get to court and laughing evilly until then? Your strange opinions about developers and publisher are starting to sound like conspiracy ravings.

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

Regardless, at the moment, the mod is not out in distribution. That will be the solid evidance they need. Otherwords, they will wait until the mod's release. LA could have someone pull the mod apart, and then they will present it as evidence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just where to get this stuff? If LA or Obsidian has some sort of problem with Restoration Project, they would have simply said so to Team Gizka and put stop to it.

 

Do you honestly think that "they" are just waiting to get to court and laughing evilly until then? Your strange opinions about developers and publisher are starting to sound like conspiracy ravings.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never heard that before.

 

No, I don't expect them to go to court right after the mod is released. However, if they believe there is a problem, they will most likely tell them to remove the mod. Usualy, they will give a warning before pressing charges. If any action is taken, it will be after the mod is released. Otherwords, they will just sit by until then.

[kirottu]

No, any action would have been done already. And since that hasn

Edited February 3, 2006 by kirottu

[Duke Togo]

No, I don't expect them to go to court right after the mod is released. However, if they believe there is a problem, they will most likely tell them to remove the mod. Usualy, they will give a warning before pressing charges. If any action is taken, it will be after the mod is released. Otherwords, they will just sit by until then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You do realize you are having this discussion in a stickied topic in Obsidian's forums on their very own website, right? Do you think its possible that just maybe they already know what is going on, and have no problem with it?

[kirottu]

No, I don't expect them to go to court right after the mod is released. However, if they believe there is a problem, they will most likely tell them to remove the mod. Usualy, they will give a warning before pressing charges. If any action is taken, it will be after the mod is released. Otherwords, they will just sit by until then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You do realize you are having this discussion in a stickied topic in Obsidian's forums on their very own website, right? Do you think its possible that just maybe they already know what is going on, and have no problem with it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No! You don

[BattleCookiee]

Ah, yes, they didn't fire me for that reason, but for making this one sticky... they are closing in on the TSL:RP... All run for your lives.

 

Really MacLeodCorp, you stard sounding more paranoid than Hades (quite a feat) and just mentioning everywhere that companies lie, betray and sue without evidence doesn't really helps anyone, certainly not the Restoration Project.

 

What do you expect them to do? Go underground, join the OE-Resistance and make guerilla-actions against OE-HQ, while illegally distributing the "resistance mod"?

[Jediphile]

I thought about this last night:

I have only one major concern for these people, and it may be due to how they advertised. When people say, "Hey have you heard about 'Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords", people are now relating Obsidian's work with the Restoration Project. At Wikipedia's website, The Restoration Project is now being connected to KotOR II and Obsidian. This could generate a big problem.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOTOR_II

 

When an outside group starts to generate credit for work that someone else has started, there could be serious legal issues. Not just from Obsidian, but from LA themselves. They could be waiting until the mod is released to make a move. I could be wrong.

 

Like someone has just said in this thread, "when my friend asks about playing KotOR II, I tell them to wait for the Restoration Project." Now, I am an advertising designer, and I know the law that surounds copywritten material. If someone walks in and restores work that I originally started, and then they become noticed for it, I could legally sue for infractions to the copywrite laws.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While we cannot rule out that this could happen, I sincerely doubt it will for several reasons:

 

1. LA has already taken major flak for the "premature" release of the "unfinished" KotOR2 (I think both are true, but it's an opinion, so I put it in quotations). Imagine the flak if they do this? It would be very, very bad publicity for LA, and since many gaming mags are involved and have already voiced their own criticism in many cases, the reaction would be vocal in both press and among the customers.

 

2. Obsidian is still a young company building it's reputation. With the "unfiinished" KotOR2 as its first game, it's not exactly off to a rosy start. I'm not saying that this is Obsidian's fault, just that people will remember and try before buying next time. So I really think Obsidian is unlikely to do anything to upset the customers any further, both because they seem like nice people, but also because they would be digging their own grave.

 

What I find more troubling with the whole restoration project is the precedence it might create. What if it becomes acceptable for companies to release unfinished and bug-ridden games and not correct it, because hard-core fans will likely do it for them? I'd hate for that to be the industry standard...

[Stewdawg24]

You're in advertising now?  I thought you were in High School?

 

 

In any case, if Lucasarts wanted to do something about it, they probably already would have.  Furthermore, unless the mod team is taking credit for the work of the copyrighted material, what exactly could Lucasarts sue them for?

 

And what would Lucasarts gain from said lawsuit?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LA has been trying to hit modders for years. This would present a perfect target for them to take action.

 

High School? Where did you get that? I am actually a college student, and advertising designer for two newspapers. I have an extensive online portfolio that is available for clients only. I have created various newspaper and magazine ads. I have produced and published shoppers, brochures, ads, corporate identities, etc...Hehehe...

 

Regardless, at the moment, the mod is not out in distribution. That will be the solid evidance they need. Otherwords, they will wait until the mod's release. LA could have someone pull the mod apart, and then they will present it as evidence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have a problem with you saying that Lucas Arts has been trying to hit modders for years. Have you ever been to the KOTOR 2 page on LA's site. Under the "Community" listing they link directly to StarWarsknights.com. I'll give you three guesses what kind of site that is......A site devoted to the modding of both KOTOR's. If LA was so down on modding why would they link to a modding site from their own site.

 

If LA or Obsidian had a problem with this they would've shut down Team-Gizka a long time ago. In addition, if the restoration team is succesful won't that lead to additional sales of the game? So, let's think about this for a moment.....If the restoration project is successful Lucas Arts and Obsidian will make more money off increased sales and they didn't have to spend a dime for it......Now tell me again why LA or Obsidian would want to shut them down? Oh...that's right recognition......If team-gizka gets some well earned respect and all LA gets is potentially a couple hundred thousand dollars and a boatload of free publicity, I think George will look the other way.

[alanschu]

LA has been trying to hit modders for years. This would present a perfect target for them to take action.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Based on what? They allowed a mod team to make a mod for BF1942 called Galactic Conquest with no qualms against it. The only request they had was that they did not use licensed music such as the John Williams' theme...probably because Lucasarts doesn't actually own the rights to it. They gave full permission to make a mod that the would see zero profit from. Furthermore, the mod still released updates after Battlefront was released, which could actually have been construed as a competitor.

 

And that's making mods with other games with the SW name. As for Star Wars games that get modded...well, there's mods out of KOTOR, KOTOR2, the Jedi Knight/Dark Forces games, Star Wars; Rebellion (!), and pretty much every other game they've ever released. The only issue I've ever seen Lucasarts have with mod teams is the mods using licensed music. They have certainly been doing a piss poor job of hitting modders, if that's what they've been trying to do.

 

 

I think you're confusing Lucasarts for Fox Interactive.

 

 

Though even Fox Interactive has no problems with people making mods with THEIR games. It's when people use someone else's game with their IP that they get upset. This clearly is not the case with the Restoration Project.

 

Blizzard also shutdown a Starcraft mod for C&C: Generals because they are still supporting the game. They probably also stand to lose money from advertising revenues on Battle.net, as well as provide additional revenue to competing companies as it would provide incentive for people to buy the other product.

 

The Restoration Project is not a perfect target. Unless you can somehow demonstrate that Lucasarts stands to lose from someone making a mod for their game, it's a poor target. They certainly won't lose financially, which is often the biggest concern.

 

 

Unless your advertising experience can show me some sort of precedent set in a different case, I think you are blowing things infinitely out of proportion.

Edited February 3, 2006 by alanschu

[Dark_Raven]

This content was taken from the TSL Restoration thread.

[Guest MacLeodCorp]

There is a difference between modding, and what Team-Gizka is doing. Modders manipulate game files, and create unique add-ons to the game. Team-Gizka is restoring 'cut content'.

 

Now, what is 'cut-content'?

Cut Content is content that was removed from the final cut of the game. Within the 'cut content' there are files and dialogue, which were originally create by a professional artist (developer). These files were created by the game designers, and were removed due to a specific reason.

 

Here is the shade of gray:

Team-Gizka is returning the 'Cut Content' back into the game. Otherwords, they are taking files that were created by an artist (developer), and they are reinstalling the files.

 

Since the original files are not being altered, and they are not altering the story, they are going to get credit for restoring an allready made product. All they are doing is connecting the dots.

 

They are restoring 'Unaltered Content', and they advertised this in key locations online. At the moment, people are relating 'KotOR II' to the 'Restoration' Team (Team-Gizka). Otherwords, they are getting credit for developing the'cut content', and it is overshadowing the fact that a Obsidian Ent developer created it.

 

If anything, we all owe ObsidianEnt respect for that content. Even thought Team-Gizka is restoring the content, they should not get the credit in its developement. It is illeagel to get credit for someone elses work. Period.

 

If Team-Gizke were to manipulate the story elements, and make a unique sidequest, then it would be completley leagal to do so. However, they are not doing this. What they are doing is taking someone elses work, and they are going to get credit for its restoration. As if they developed it. <---That is where the problem resides.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

Now, why would LA or any company wait until the mod is created.... For evidence. It is simple logic. At the moment, all they have are words, and they don't have the actual piece. If they choose to do so, LA or Obsidian could open the 'Restoration' teams files, and ask the team to remove the files from online distribution. If they refuse to do so, they could be sued.

 

There is no conspiracy in this. It would only be buisness, and protecting their rights as developer, publisher, and license owner.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

Even though a single developer/moderator gives them permission, they are only one individual. They do not stand for the company, but for their own intrest. If the President of Obsidian gives them permission, they will also have to seek the permission of Lucas Arts. Since Lucas Arts owns Knights of the Old Republic, they would need to contact them.

 

Edited::: For some spelling errors. If you don't believe me, look at the quote items below.

Edited February 4, 2006 by MacLeodCorp