Volourn Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Too bad about sewers. They are an important part of D&D, fantasy games, and the Realms. Everything else in the article is mostly good stuff though. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Nick_i_am Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 WHY OBS WHY?! (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
GhostofAnakin Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Pretty interesting read. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
Rhomal Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 WHY OBS WHY?! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> RE: Sewers First of all this is not new, if you would have followed the front page of nwn2news this surfaced several weeks ago. That aside from what has been described it is not that big deal to emulate a sewer. Use the dungeon tileset, paint some water streams down this hall and that. Drop some rubble and garbage here and there, spawn some rats. Boom, done, instant sewer. Really not a huge issue. Admin of World of Darkness Online News News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG http://www.wodonlinenews.net --- Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer --- "I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem." - Doreen Valiente --- Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta
Volourn Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 It's a GIGANTIC issue. You may make somehting sewer-like; but it will not be a sewer. Just like in NWN, it was possible to make a swamp like area; but there was no swamps. P.S. I know it isn't new; but every time it's brought up in interviews,a rticles, and threads I will share my opinion on it being missing (until it's added in expansions) much as other as others will post how they are proud that Obsidian is ignoring Sweet Sewers of Sainthood. P.S.S. And, sewers aren't about killing rats. That is just silly, and unimaginative talk. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Rhomal Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 It's a GIGANTIC issue. You may make somehting sewer-like; but it will not be a sewer. Just like in NWN, it was possible to make a swamp like area; but there was no swamps. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry V but until you get the toolset you really dont know how well you can, or cant emulate sewers. You are jumping the gun on this topic. And second this may turn out to be more a issue of lack of skill with the toolset then not having the tools to do so. Something to consider. Admin of World of Darkness Online News News/Community site for the WoD MMORPG http://www.wodonlinenews.net --- Jericho sassed me so I broke into his house and stabbed him to death in his sleep. Problem solved. - J.E. Sawyer --- "I cannot profess to be a theologian; but it seems to me that Christians who believe in a super human Satan have got themselves into a logical impasse with regard to their own religion. For either God can not prevent the mischief of Satan, in which case he is not omnipotent; or else He could do so if he wished, but will not, in which case He is not benevolent. Fortunately, being a pagan witch, I am not called upon to solve this problem." - Doreen Valiente --- Expecting "innovation" from Bioware is like expecting "normality" from Valve -Moatilliatta
Morgoth Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) Just because Obsidian doesn't add sewers-assets doesn't mean the mod community won't make any. Just create Sewers-like Textures and Geometry, place the sound- and light sources right and voila, here you got your sewers. Edited January 11, 2006 by Morgoth Rain makes everything better.
Volourn Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) The word emulate says everything. You could emulate sewers; but you cna't have a sewer. Afterall, Obsdiain says there are NO sewers. If they say there are NO sewer tilesets there are no sewer tilesets. You cna't get clearer than that. Yes, they've said you can emulate sewers. This si true. And, yes, it will be passable, and be ok. But, it still won't be sewers unless someone makes a sewer tileset hak much like the swamp tileset haks for NWN1 or until Obsdiain adds one themselves. I don't need to have the toolset to know what Obsidian has stated just like you don't need it to *know* that you can EMULATE sewers. Not trying to be difficult, btw, just going by the information that Obsidian has shared with us. "because Obsidian doesn't add sewers-assets doesn't mean the mod community won't make any." True; but I'd rather have Obsidian make them. Like the swamp tileset hak is good in NWN1; but I would ahve rathered if BIO had put in a swamp. Same with NWN2 and sewers. Edited January 11, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Morgoth Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 True; but I'd rather have Obsidian make them. Like the swamp tileset hak is good in NWN1; but I would ahve rathered if BIO had put in a swamp. Same with NWN2 and sewers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sure, people who only use the toolset and do not have the knowledge/talent/software to create custom assets could profit from With-the-game-shipped-sewers. Still, the NWN community is awesome, and it's probably just a matter of days/weeks till you can download a gallery of sewer-haks of any....uhm mud-level available. Rain makes everything better.
Volourn Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Agreed, but again, Obsidian is more trustworthy on this. They are the professioanl who are paid instead of those who do it on a whim who only focus on what they like. LONG LIVE OBSIDIAN MADE SEWERS IN NWN2 EXPANSION1! That is all. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Kaftan Barlast Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 What kind of person in the right mind would voluntarily spend hours treading around in sewers?! Theyre filled with festering human and animal excrements, rotten throwaways of everything from fishguts to onions, maggot-filled carcasses of farm animals and pets, every unhealthy home-use chemical known to man and the general filth that the rainwater washes down. Anyone spending longer than a few minutes in that kind of enviroment would need to do a fortitude check not to catch something nasty yesh! DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. "
Volourn Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 "What kind of person in the right mind would voluntarily spend hours treading around in sewers?! " An adventurer. You know the same types that willingly chase down, and hunt 200'+ long man eating dragons just for the thrill of it. The know the same types that enjoy a merry trip to hell to say hello to the local Demon Lord. etc., etc. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Morgoth Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 What kind of person in the right mind would voluntarily spend hours treading around in sewers?! Theyre filled with festering human and animal excrements, rotten throwaways of everything from fishguts to onions, maggot-filled carcasses of farm animals and pets, every unhealthy home-use chemical known to man and the general filth that the rainwater washes down. Anyone spending longer than a few minutes in that kind of enviroment would need to do a fortitude check not to catch something nasty yesh! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, that's certainly unpleasant in RealLife.... but didn't the Game Uni teached you that yet? In video games, wading around with a shiny paladin in smelly mud is teh fun! It's teh ultimate Roleplaying experience! :cool: Rain makes everything better.
Gabrielle Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 What kind of person in the right mind would voluntarily spend hours treading around in sewers?! Theyre filled with festering human and animal excrements, rotten throwaways of everything from fishguts to onions, maggot-filled carcasses of farm animals and pets, every unhealthy home-use chemical known to man and the general filth that the rainwater washes down. Anyone spending longer than a few minutes in that kind of enviroment would need to do a fortitude check not to catch something nasty yesh! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nosferatu.
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 Volourn, he said "in their right mind." We all know that adventurers are not right in the mind. That is why they are adventurers. No sewers is a real bummber. I mean in every campaign that I run, may it be Dungeons and Dragons to Cyberpunk 2020 a sewer run is involved. Its not a proper adventure campaign without going into the sewers. The overland map editor is pretty darn cool. I expect Sewers tileset to be in the first Live update or at the latest in the first expansion.
SteveThaiBinh Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 What kind of person in the right mind would voluntarily spend hours treading around in sewers?! There's a case for sewers in RPGs. They add plausibility. It is conceivable that a city would have a sewer system and that it might become infested with monsters. Dungeons, on the other hand - who's building these things in the middle of nowhere? Plus, sewers don't just have rats, they have many varieties of rats. Off the top of my head, I can remember from Arcanum regular rats, giant rats, putrid rodents, granite rats, were rats and rock rats. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
karka Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 I like sewers. But somehow i'm not dissapointed because the lack of the sewers. Just trust the power of the community.
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 The community is just a bunch of amateurs, and while some of thier stuff is good 90% of it is crap. I rather put my trust in professionals.
Volourn Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) "Dungeons, on the other hand - who's building these things in the middle of nowhere?" Dwarves. In the Realms specificlaly the majority of dungeons are ancient dwarven strongholds that were in ancient times overrun by scum monsters. This includes the grandest of them all - Undermountain. That's right folks. Halaster didn't create Undermountain... "Plus, sewers don't just have rats" Rats are the least of ones' worries in sewers. Do people rmemeber the BG1, and BG2 sewers. As well NWN sewers. Rats were the elast of the problems encountered. BG1 - Sarevok hide out, and Ogre Mage lording over slimers. BG2 - Lead to the Celkstial Fury group, and beholder undertunnels. NWN - The dead chidlren storyline took place here... Good stuff. "Volourn, he said "in their right mind."" Heh. Good point. Still there are lost of reasons why those in a reasonable mind would enter sewers. Edited January 12, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Gabrielle Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 "Dungeons, on the other hand - who's building these things in the middle of nowhere?" Dwarves. In the Realms specificlaly the majority of dungeons are ancient dwarven strongholds that were in ancient times overrun by scum monsters. This includes the grandest of them all - Undermountain. That's right folks. Halaster didn't create Undermountain... "Plus, sewers don't just have rats" Rats are the least of ones' worries in sewers. Do people rmemeber the BG1, and BG2 sewers. As well NWN sewers. Rats were the elast of the problems encountered. BG1 - Sarevok hide out, and Ogre Mage lording over slimers. BG2 - Lead to the Celkstial Fury group, and beholder undertunnels. NWN - The dead chidlren storyline took place here... Good stuff. "Volourn, he said "in their right mind."" Heh. Good point. Still there are lost of reasons why those in a reasonable mind would enter sewers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good stuff indeed and valid points Volo.
Dhruin Posted January 12, 2006 Author Posted January 12, 2006 God, I'm sick of sewers - this is a plus for me. As for the tileset, the new capabilities are quite powerful and might make it quite easy to create something just as good, so I'll reserve judgement until I see what it can do.
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 Well, if they do sewers later on I hope they do it like the DLA sewers and not the baseline sewers like Bioware. The DLA sewers are much better and look like actual sewers.
Gabrielle Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 I like Bloodlines sewers. Nice water effects and it looked great.
SteveThaiBinh Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 "Dungeons, on the other hand - who's building these things in the middle of nowhere?" Dwarves. In the Realms specificlaly the majority of dungeons are ancient dwarven strongholds that were in ancient times overrun by scum monsters. So why are the ceilings so high? I'm happy for Obsidian to put in the game whatever tickles their collective creative muse, sewers or no. For preference, I'd also like more exterior locations and fewer absurdly large rooms in buildings. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
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