Gaming industry insertion loophole

[Aes Sedai]

I have great ideas for games. I've shared them with people and have gotten nothing but positive responses. Even my fianc

[Kaftan Barlast]

Ideas are like apples, they grow on trees

Edited December 1, 2005 by Kaftan Barlast

[Guest Michael Chu]

There are a very large number (me included) of people in the game industry that do not have four year college degrees.

[Aes Sedai]

Ideas are like apples, they grow on trees

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I understand your lack of enthusiasm. But if I was some pissant I wouldn't even have tried this avenue of approach.

[Aes Sedai]

There are a very large number (me included) of people in the game industry that do not have four year college degrees.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ok, I'll bite. How did you find Shangri-La?

[Guest Michael Chu]

There are a very large number (me included) of people in the game industry that do not have four year college degrees.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ok, I'll bite. How did you find Shangri-La?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The same way I recommend to everyone who wants to get into the game industry: get a job in it, apply for everything. Chances are you won't be able to get a "real" development position with no experience, so take a job as a tester, as an intern, etc. Then work hard. Personally, I started out in QA.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Michael Chu

[Kaftan Barlast]

Ideas are like apples, they grow on trees

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I understand your lack of enthusiasm. But if I was some pissant I wouldn't even have tried this avenue of approach.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I didnt mean to sound hard but the way things look is that everyone and his grandmother has ideas. The world is swamped in ideas, especially the world of computer games. At your usual game studio, everyone from lead designer to QA man will have a whole cupboard full of ideas and plans for games and if they have that with their own employees, why would they bring in some stranger off the street? (not to mention that very few companies get to do IP's these days)

 

 

If you just have ideas, then writing a novel or screenplay is probably a much better way to get to unleash them on the world

Edited December 1, 2005 by Kaftan Barlast

[Aes Sedai]

Ideas are like apples, they grow on trees

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I understand your lack of enthusiasm. But if I was some pissant I wouldn't even have tried this avenue of approach.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I didnt mean to sound hard but the way things look is that everyone and his grandmother has ideas. The world is swamped in ideas, especially the world of computer games. At your usual game studio, everyone from lead designer to QA man will have a whole cupboard full of ideas and plans for games and if they have that with their own employees, why would they bring in some stranger off the street? (not to mention that very few companies get to do IP's these days)

 

If you just have ideas, then writing a novel or screenplay is probably a much better way to get to unleash them on the world

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know everybody has ideas. How else could we get quality games like Bulletproof or Advent Rising, or well written storylines like in Tales of Symphonia? (read: sarcasm) My ideas are better. We don't need more GTA clones or Halo clones, we need something original, something that will grab people, wake them up, excite them, games that make your heart race in anticipation and bring a tear to your eye at the end. And I don't think that's too much to ask. But you're telling me that even if I got a job in the industry my voice might be lost in the din?

[Aes Sedai]

There are a very large number (me included) of people in the game industry that do not have four year college degrees.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ok, I'll bite. How did you find Shangri-La?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The same way I recommend to everyone who wants to get into the game industry: get a job in it, apply for everything. Chances are you won't be able to get a "real" development position with no experience, so take a job as a tester, as an intern, etc. Then work hard. Personally, I started out in QA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ok, you started out in QA. Have you even been able to create your own IP? Were your ideas listened to?

[Aes Sedai]

Let me just add that it is complete and utter b.s. (I couldn't think of a synonym, so I thought I'd use the acronym) for a gifted individual who has been playing games for the better part of two decades to have his voice "lost in the din". I understand making games is a risky business. So a lot of developers take the easy road:

 

"Halo sold well, so let's make an FPS."

"Final Fantasy sold well, let's make an RPG."

"GTA sold well, let's make a freeroaming game where you shoot civilians."

 

Now, not every FPS is a Halo clone. But how many are? Project IM is still years from release and it's already being compared to Halo. I mean, come on. How about something different, something new? Huh?

[Kaftan Barlast]

You need to realise that its the PUBLISHERS, not the developers who decide what games gets done. And nowadays they will always go for a franchise game or a sequel rather than invest in something new and untested because they dont want to take chances.

 

 

..and there is a million other reasons why most of the really great ideas never get done. Its not that the bussiness lacks good ideas, its that the suits wont let them through.

 

 

(and a million other reasons)

[Guest Michael Chu]

Ok, you started out in QA.  Have you even been able to create your own IP?  Were your ideas listened to?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I haven't created my own IP, but I have worked on projects that are IP (Warcraft). The thing about the game industry is that, except in rare cases, no one person gets their ideas made or implemented, there are large teams of programmers, artists, producers and designers who all have input on a game or project's direction.

 

And yes, from time to time, people are dumb enough to listen to my ideas. "

Edited December 2, 2005 by Michael Chu

[Hurlshort]

Uh, go to college. Go at night, take out loans to cover it, and in 4-8 years you'll have that degree. Your ideas will still be there by then.

[Aes Sedai]

Just found this:

 

http://www.bioware.com/biozone/articles/20...test/index.html

 

Anyone interested should check it out. Oh, and thanks for everyone's input.

[Blank]

i have always wanted to be a good writer with a good story, but sadly i am not that good. i am sure the same goes for many other people here. i will just retain my writing fix by posting stuff on this forum like many other people here.

Edited December 3, 2005 by Blank

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

If you think your ideas are as brilliant, magnificent and revolutionary as you seem to think, then maybe you should take up modding (or, program your own little games from scratch) and see where that takes you.

[Aes Sedai]

Last night, after reading about Bioware's contest, I immediately went to WalMart and picked up a copy of NWN. Although I have a (semi) powerful PC, those types of games never really appealed to me. But now I plan on living in the city of Neverwinter (at least until the end of January).

[Brian Lawson]

I think part of the problem with a lot of people, and possibly the original poster, is that more often than not...too many people are looking for that "free ride". I'm not saying that these people are good/bad writers, artists, programmers, etc, one way or the other.

 

But honestly, this industry is made up of a lot of people who have busted their butts for years to get into it and to do what they/we do every day. I work with people every day who couldn't afford to go to college, but some how found a way...and here they are today, doing what they love.

 

The bottom line is that those who truly have the desire and passion to do this every day for a living will find a way. Those who "think" they do or just like to "talk" about it...probably won't. It's reality.

 

One thing is for certain, nobody is going to hand anybody a free opportunity in this industry. You need to be able to prove yourself and prove your skillz. :cool:

 

Take BioWare's module making contest for example. Yes, while it's a great opportunity, you better believe they'll be interviewing the heck out of those that make the "first cut". And even then, I wouldn't be surprised to see them end up hiring maybe a handfull to maybe even only one or two at most.

[Guard Dog]

I think part of the problem with a lot of people, and possibly the original poster, is that more often than not...too many people are looking for that "free ride".  I'm not saying that these people are good/bad writers, artists, programmers, etc, one way or the other.

 

 

Take BioWare's module making contest for example.  Yes, while it's a great opportunity, you better believe they'll be interviewing the heck out of those that make the "first cut".  And even then, I wouldn't be surprised to see them end up hiring maybe a handfull to maybe even only one or two at most. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As to the first part of Brian's comment, we had a similar situation at work. I work for a major US based cellular company as a RF engineer. We recently had to reject an applicant who had been with the company for many years simply because they did not qualify for the job. This individual had worked up from customer service to data translations and aspired to go even higher. He was a good guy, and a smart, and hard worker. But desire did not give him the knowledge level to do the job. That can only be had with an eduaction, and yes that usually means a degree.

 

Bioware's little contest will certainly grab some attention. However, no matter how good their module might be, without some experience in writing, software design or both the winner might be drinking from a new Jade Empire coffee cup but they will not be doing it in Edmonton.

 

As to Aes Sedai's post, the best way to get noticed by a developer is to mod their game. Rick Burton, Georg Zoeller, and Brian Chung all got noticed for their mod work but it was their eduacation as well as their ability that got them hired by Bioware. I would bet there are more than one or two on Obsidian's staff who were noticed by their first company because of modding. But only knowledge level gets the job

[Musopticon?]

Wow, what times we live! Even enthusiasts are pathetic.

[Aes Sedai]

Ah, brutal honesty. Above all, that is what I was looking for. But, "pathetic enthusiast"? Come on. The Jade Empire coffee mug comment was hilarious, however. Have to remember that one.

 

Maybe it is just a pipe dream. A poor background, a series of dead-end jobs, no high level education. What am I thinking, that I somehow deserve a hand out, a "free ride", because a few good ideas popped into my head?

 

I don't want charity, and I don't want sympathy. But don't call me a "pathetic enthusiast", okay? Because one day I'm gonna get my shot, my one chance, and my name will become synonymous with the term "greatest games".

 

...wait.

[Musopticon?]

Indeed. I give you props for the effort if you're willing to go through with this, however

[Atreides]

Have you considered having our IP in a different format - writing or a setting pitched to gaming companies (tabletop, electronic) etc?

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I'm currently one of those people out there who are "busting their butt" to attempt to get into the games industry. It's tough, really tough, and extremly competative depending upon what kind of position you're aiming for.

 

Oh, and boy do you need some talent! I'm currently at University study'in a degree in computer games programming (Second year), and just to simply explain the kind of dedication one needs to get some results I'll quickly skim over my last 12 weeks.

 

Firstly, during the twelve weeks we've learnt C++, and the Direct X API & Parts of the WIN32 API.

 

The first task was to create a scene... It could be anything you wanted to create, lots of folks went for space scene's. I didn't (I spent all my first year concentrating upon getting the feel of dungeons correct) so I've continued with this theme.

 

During the first 6 weeks, I taught myself the entire C++ syntax to a level I now feel confident enough with it to create anything I desire. Now I never studied maths above GCSE level, and now being 23 I had honestly forgotten anything I had learnt at that time anyways, so I also taught myself about Vectors, Matricies, Trig, Linear Algebra, How radians work... etc... Then you have the API's to get to grips with, DirectX does have a learning curve, albiet it much easier now than versions 6-7. You can imagine the amount of books I've read! By week 10 I had just finished writing the initialization code for Direct X and researching another project which I am about to continue working upon.

 

Between week 10 & 12, I worked solidly building classes for primitives, creating a mesh loader program, dealing with sound, lighting, object movement, a little particle engine and so on... As the deadline crept closer I slept less... (You know when Chris Avelone spoke about the amount of caffine he drank and how he ended up going to the doctor in an interview he gave I got a little taste of that world, and damn that guy must be a slightly bit crazed at times, I certainly started to question the nature of reality atleast! and began jabbering mad stuff) I was coding for periods of 14-24 hours soild, then crashing for 4-6 hours and repeating the process.

 

And my achievement at the end of all this? Around 2/3 of what I originally set out to do, if I get chance I'll post a screenshot of the result... (I'm at work at the moment)

 

That was 12 weeks, your average dev cycle is approx 60 - 80 weeks, with milestones every four weeks, and you have to make those milestones!

heh You have crunch time aswell, all I can say is I am glad I invested in a decent sleeping bag already.

 

Anybody who thinks making games is an easy ride needs to go get lost some place in the Arizona desert, it's tough, it's competative, it's could even be considered cruel!

 

Also if you're really serious about making a game, but you can't afford college or university, why not take a look at the mod scene, or try the gamedev forums, where there is a will there is a way.

 

I'll go back to trying to find an internship, I currently have an interview coming up for Rare Software, I expect to be sitting a C++ test, if anyone could shed any light on what these are like I'd very much appriciate the info.

 

Sadly, obsidian ain't wanting interns at the moment so I can't apply to my number one place . I don't wanna put them off me for life by bugging them to give me a job when they don't have space.

[Laozi]

Storytelling is one of society's oldest traditions, and video games are just one of its newest incarnations. If you really believe that your ideas have merit then it would be worth your time to invest in the skills needed to see your ideas come to fruition.

 

The greatest problem with storytelling is that you seem to be either born with the ability or you are not. You really can't "practice" your way into being a good storyteller, so your best bet would be to write down your story and then go from there. If your story is a good one and it is told well, then you'll almost certainly find many avenues open to you.

Edited December 18, 2005 by Laozi