Visas vs. Bastila

[Taran'atar]

LOL, I dont understand where Bastila gets this huge fan base from, I really dont, she was a flawed jedi from the start. Hell she was a flawed person from the start!

 

Hehehe! I just noticed this gem!

 

Show me a character that doesn't have any flaws, personal or professional, and I'll show you a pretty crappy work of fiction.

Edited December 3, 2005 by Taran'atar

[Commissar]

I don't think you guys are taking this seriously enough.

 

Get into it, damnit! Your choice isn't going to win unless you put a little passion into your posts!

[dufflover]

BTW:  Still looking for a LEGIT reason for all this Bastila fanism!  No ones supported their claim at all yet regarding her popularity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't you think it's satisfying/gratifying to fall in love and win the heart of a beautiful Jedi...

[BattleCookiee]

Generic?

 

Lets see, when you first meet Visas she speaks about

1) her master (pretty important)

2) Why shes here (pretty important)

3) How she found you (super important)

4) Forshadows that you will meet her master eventually (huge forshadowing)

5) Why she is loyal to you (pretty important)

 

just saying something is "general" doesnt make it so. Visas dialog was definately to compacted by Obsidian (should have been spread out more) but NOTHING she says is just general stuff, everything had relivance to the storyline.

 

So you think that every convo line should be story dependant is a GOOD thing? I rather prefer some long and good chatter (Jolee Bindo anyone) that doesn't move the story-line but is just chatter for learning a character (NOT the story)

 

Compared to Bastilas first five statements:

1) Berates you saying you didnt save her

2) Berates you for not having a plan in place beyond rescuing her sorry arse

3) Argues about who is leader

4) Whines about Carth berating her for being so obnoxious and egotistical

5) finally admits you saved her in a LESS then convincing voice

 

LOL, (sarcasm) WOW, Bastila did add alot to the storytline after all! ROFL!

 

Like I said, why should every line in convo add to the storyline. I prefer that every line tells me more about some char's attitude (rebelous and spoiler for Bastila) than the storyline, leaving a "blank, uninteresting" character...

 

also not true, you hear of the destruction on Kattar while on Peragus and even then its refered to as a PAST happening, not centuries old but a good year or so. So its not as fresh as you make it out.

 

NEGATIVE. When you are on Telos, they tell you about the "recent destruction of Katarr"

 

Remember, K2 happens (if I remember previous Obsidian statements correctly) 5-10 years AFTER K1 ends. So Kattar had to happen and THEN Jedi spread out and set up bases (Kavar says as much, "after Kattar, those of us that survived seperated and agreed to meet back on Dantoine if our enemy exposes himself). That means that Kattar happened and then there was a period of time before these happenings.

 

Then why do these TSF' mention a recent destruction? Another plot-hole to add to Kotor2's list

 

Also General whats his name (Onderon) joined forces with the unseen sith AFTER Kattar, and thats when his plan went into motion. Or do you think he just put his people under military rule and blockaded the planet from the republic in a day?

 

A day...no, but a week, or month could be possible, yes..

 

PS: The fact you can grow s uch an attachment to Visas so quickly is a compliment to Obsidian and their creation of her. A complete character that sparked interest backed up by the storyline.

 

Attachment ?

The first time I played Kotor2 I was *not amused* at all when founding out that my "love" was overwon without any indication toward love, and handmaiden hated me for...yeah, for what actually?

 

With Bastila, all the claims regarding her are not backed up by the storyline, its just wishful thinking so to speak. How people see her here and how shes actually protrayed are two drastically different ideals.

 

I don't get it either (why so many prefer Bastila).

Nor do I get Visas' fanboism. Man, she must have been one of the WORST worked out NPC's in Kotor2...

 

LOL, she didnt serve on frontlines, she stayed behind the scene to use her battle meditation EXCEPT for the assult on Revans ship where they captured Revan.

 

so sorry, she wasnt in the thick of things as you state.

 

Sources? Ingame ones too SVP...

She was a Padawan, no wonder she stayed with her master and did not the most dangerous stuff of the Jedi...

 

Also you misrepresent what I said, what I said was when Bastila is forced into a situation (IE: being captured) thats when her survival instincts kick in and loyalty holds no sway. When faced with join or die choices. She ALWAYS chooses join (or subservant) rather then stand up for her supposive confictions.

 

No, she did tried to preserve (see Malak Force Lightning' scene on the Unknown World), but failed due to her weak mind, that allowed love and disobidiance and that stuff...

 

Visas on other hand, choose to die (well offered it anyways) so Exile could defeat Nimbus. Her loyalties were stronger then her will to continue living. The makings of a REAL hero and ROLE MODEL!

 

MAJOR KEY DIFFERENCE between the two!

 

Wait? Bastila getting into the Battle with Malak on the Leviathan?

MAJOR FLAW IN YOUR STATEMENT

 

Wont argue Vulkars with you, go replay game. She FIRST states she could have escaped anytime and then LATER begrudgingly admits she needed help but her original statements were already made! Unlike Visas who is honest with you from the get go and not into childish games.

 

Nah, she had too, with her 5 convo lines VS Bastila with her 20+ convo and various ingame-NPC-convo lines...

 

BTW: Still looking for a LEGIT reason for all this Bastila fanism! No ones supported their claim at all yet regarding her popularity.

 

Don't get Bastila/Visas fanboism either,

But even so I understand Bastila fanboism more, since she actually had a story and a personality (even if one as a spoiled arrogant brad :D )

 

If it was looks Mira should win above all in no time...

If it was character Juhani or Kreia would win in no time...

Edited December 3, 2005 by Battlewookiee

[Darth_Schmarth]

I like Bastila 'cause she's hot.

[Kalfear]

Not quoting yas Battle as that post of yas didnt quite work out so just replying.

 

1) I didnt say every line had to advance storyline, but YOU did say her first 5 lines were generic lines which they were not!

 

Dont try to change meaning of question to suit new answer

 

2) I agree if the character is interesting. Bastila wasnt at start of game. Meeting her was a major disappointment other then how well she was drawn and that deep but sexy english accent.

 

3) Recent can mean anything, what? 1 - 2 years is still recent when speaking of a entire planet being wiped out! I could make anouther real life example but that subject still touchy to many so will leave it at that instead outta respect.

 

4) Plot hole? Please Explain. Recent could mean 1-2-3-4 years. Hell could mean 9 years for that matter. It was a MAJOR MAJOR act of destruction. Larger the act, longer it stays relevant.

 

5)a week or a month? Ummm thats called a Coo (sp?). Not a political take over which is what is happening on Onderon. The general is trying to take over through the political structure and that takes time. When you speak to the city folk they tell you about how everyone taking sides and why. Those type of attitudes are fostered and grown, someone just taking over in a week or month doesnt get that type of support unless the people are majorly upset with current political figure head (which wasnt the case in Onderon).

 

6) Hey, I already admitted and agreed Obsidian rushed Visas story so why keep going back to it?????

 

As for no love??? Sorry, the reasoning behind the love was a hell of alot clearer then the reasoning behind Bastilas and Revans in K1. And you DIDNT understand why Handmaiden was upset??????? Ummm were you playing with subtitles tyrned off and sound on mute???? SHE TELLS YOU IN THE CUT SCRENE EXACTLY WHY!!!!! How could you not understand???

 

Sorry, think your grasping at straws now.

 

7) I understand Visas, she had a great worked out character, an interesting and relevant storyline, an incredible voice, and was drawn well.

 

Same goes for Handmaiden, her story dragged you in. Between the duels and meaning behind them, her constant inner battle with wanting to stay loyal to Atris but seeing first hand as flats and holes in Atris's philosiphy started to appear, her jealousy of Visas. It was just a amazingly well done storyline.

 

LOL, ok she was a padawen, still wasnt in thick of things as you originally stated

 

9) Woops, she perservered for a day. My mistake! LOL! Weak mind? What about her valted jedi training! ROFL!

 

10) Ya she jumped into battle on leviathon. I admit that does go against my theory. All I can counter with is she knew (as we all did) she wouldnt be killed because of battle meditation so unlike Visas offering her life (KNOWING it meant death) Bastila offered herself knowing she would survive.

 

11) One thing bothers me with your statement here. This topic is Visas vrs Bastila regarding sex appeal/romance side game (or at least thats how it reads to me) because Visas wasnt actually Bastilas counter for storyline conversations.

 

If your speaking of storyline prominence. Bastila should be compared to Kreia, not Visas. Based on appearence in game and storyline (not romance side story but actual imput into storyline)

 

IE: Carth vrs Atton

Bastila vrs Kreia

Visas vrs Juhari

Mission vrs Mira

 

you get picture. So yes, storyline wise, Bastila has far more to say then Visas. Visas actual conversation storyline is short but sweet. But if you ignore all the other stuff and focus on ROMANCE ONLY storyline, Visas outdoes Bastila 10 fold.

 

Maybe thats why Bastila comes of so plain, shes wearing to many hats? So to speak.

 

Kreia by far has more lines and more relevance then Bastila does.

PS: Thank god Kreia not the romance angle of K2 LOL!

 

12)

(even if one as a spoiled arrogant brad  )

what yas got against Brad :PPPPPPP heheh

 

13) I agree on Mira, she was great, I wish she had been a 3rd romance option! Im not that old dammit!

 

BTW:  Still looking for a LEGIT reason for all this Bastila fanism!  No ones supported their claim at all yet regarding her popularity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't you think it's satisfying/gratifying to fall in love and win the heart of a beautiful Jedi...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure do, thats why I prefer Visas and dont understand the Bastila Fanism hehe

 

I don't think you guys are taking this seriously enough.

 

Get into it, damnit!  Your choice isn't going to win unless you put a little passion into your posts!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

errr LOL, I hope you dont think our going back and forth is actually seriously upseting any of us! This just a fun debate thats stayed on topic The debate itself is whats fun!

 

I like Bastila 'cause she's hot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ROFLMAO! Finally someone speaks the truth with out making up exagerated and unsupported reasons!!!!!!!!

 

Grats Schmarth, I cant argue your reasoning! hehe

Edited December 3, 2005 by Kalfear

[dufflover]

The thing is Visas has a story behind her with Nihilus and stuff, but with Bastila you are part of her story.

I agree that Bastila's attitude is annoying, but in the end it is vital to the feeling of satisfaction I mentioned above (when you look back and see how far it's all gone).

 

BTW:  Still looking for a LEGIT reason for all this Bastila fanism!  No ones supported their claim at all yet regarding her popularity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't you think it's satisfying/gratifying to fall in love and win the heart of a beautiful Jedi... :blink:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure do, thats why I prefer Visas and dont understand the Bastila Fanism hehe

Since when the heck do you win her over - she practically loves you from the start without a challenge; where's the development in that.

Edited December 3, 2005 by dufflover

[BattleCookiee]

Reply to Kalfear's last post:

 

1) Yes. They were general/generic lines. Just a bit fishing for a char's past, without any development whatsoever. You brought in the "storyline importance" of said lines...

 

2) Already said so, better a spoiled annoying brad than a bland character, even if 1 annoys the crap out of you and the second doesn't...

 

3) "I've just heard Katarr has been destroyed". Unless it takes 9 years for news to reach Telos (which is false since they knew right away about Peragus' destruction) it was in a couple of weeks/months...

 

4) See 3

 

5) Coup. Which is exactly what happens. The army of the General killing everybody and taking command...

 

6) I don't understand the reason why Visas loved me... or why I loved her. And yes, Handmaiden explained it quite well because it was of my ever non-existing feelings for Visas, hence my "what actually" line...

 

7) Great worked out character?

Like stated before, she must The most bland (except for Mandalore) of Kotor2

 

Wasn't me...

 

9) Well. How about Visas. The only Miraluku to ever be a Sith... and also after a very short while persuaded (hell, see how easy Exile does it... was it 5 or 4 minutes) "

 

10) I think YOU are grasping straws here

 

11) Yes. Agreed.

But while Bastila had almost no Sex Appeal, Visas has not a single romance option

 

13) No doubt about that

[Styur Voln]

I dont know where these questions are from so im just gonna state my views on the two.

Visas is a loyal character who is not spoiled, and isnt boring.

Bastilla is a spoiled brat with a stupid, un-sexy, posh accent. I prefer seeing her insulted more than anyhting (Canderous: You spoiled jedi princess), and CGI doesnt turn me on.

[Sikon]

Remember, K2 happens (if I remember previous Obsidian statements correctly) 5-10 years AFTER K1 ends.

5 years, to be exact.

[Darth_Schmarth]

and CGI doesnt turn me on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

CGI rocks. I'd nail anything CGI.

[Gabrielle]

I don't like CGI.

[Darth_Schmarth]

I wish I was CGI. Especially when it's totally unnecessary like when I'm eating and stuff.

 

Does it show that I'm tired of things and work too much?

[Dark Moth]

Visas was a good concept character, but not well flushed out at all. She had so much in common with the exile, yet was probably one of the least developed characters in the game. Bastila's character ended up being way deeper in the end. She undergoes a radical change of behavior and personality in the game, whereas Visas's change isn't all that apparent, and if you're darkside then the change is almost nonexistant. And as for what Kalfear said, of course Bastila is flawed. She is annoying at the start of the game. That's what the game intended. She was ment to be a dynamic (not static) character, and thus will undergo changes in the game, many times due to her own flaws. The important thing is what her character was like at endgame.

 

BTW, for those who always point out she fell to the darkside, ask yourself this: what would you be like after the mounting stress of war, a father's death, conflict between your lover and your loyalties (Revan + the Jedi code), and finally being tortured and brainwashed endlessly for a weak? Hmm... Newsflash: the whole fall to the darkside was meant to be ironic. That's a major theme throughout the whole game: that even the staunchest of Jedi can fall. More importantly, you can't say that Bastila was redeemed only because she felt Revan was stronger than Malak. She acknowledges your strength after losing to you, but if you fail at persuading her, she still begs for you to kill her. The redemption goes deeper than her views on who is stronger.

 

But you know, it doesn't really matter anyway cause Bastila still dominates the poll!

 

But don't get me wrong, I love Visas too. She just doesn't hold up to Bastila.

Edited December 5, 2005 by Mothman