Remembrance Sunday

[Walsingham]

"They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old:

 

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

 

At the going down of the sun and in the morning

 

We shall remember them. "

 

- Laurence Binyon

 

~~

 

I just realised no mention had been made today of the fact that it is Remembrance Sunday. The day on which Great Britain and all the Commonwealth recalls the lives and deaths of the men and women lost in service of Queen and country. Primarily in both World Wars, but also I think in other conflicts since.

 

It has become unfashionable to honour this day. But having lost two decorated grandfathers who served, one of whom died, and the other having lost every childhood friend in war, it has been a strong tradition in my family to stop and think.

 

I should like to use this moment to invite all of us to think about the sacrifices made by those people, in service to us later generations. Not just in the UK, or from the UK, but all free Allied nations who fought. And I include those who had to fight from exile, such as the French and Polish; as well as those who fought within the Empire, such as those from the Indian sub-continent, and Africa.

 

Though we may still live in a world of violence, where hatred exists, and fear, the world would be darker still were it not for their efforts.

 

 

 

(Ruins of Monte Cassino. A town the Allies fought through in the Liberation of Italy. The scale of the devastation reveals some of the scale of the fighting.)

[Krookie]

Sorry about your grandfathers Walsingham. :">

 

I'm from the United States so I don't know too much about anything in Great Britain, but in my town we have something similar. During World War II my town served as one of the biggest encampments in the US. We lost a lot of men from Cresskill, and have countless 'Rememberance Days' during the year.

[Walsingham]

That's cool, kotorkyle. Actually I just noticed I'd made a mistake. Only one of my gradfather died!

 

The other (living) one is still very much with us. And a feisty little b****r he is too. But he did lose every single one of his childhood friends. And every man he liked in his unit. Fought for five years, and lied about his age to volunteer. Yet he still talks about it as a job that needed doing.

[Darkside]

We just celebrated (well, celebrated isn't quite the word. Honored, I suppose.) Veteran's day here in the US. Coming from a long line of vets (thankfully none that were lost), my family remembers it more than most. I'm sorry about your granfathers, both the death of one and the other's pain at having lost his friends. People have learned since the Vietnam War that you can't blame the soldiers who are sent to battle for the decisions of the government that sent them, and for that I'm grateful. I hope we as human beings never again forget the sacrifices made by our soldiers.

[Dark Moth]

^^^ Darn you Darkside, stealing what I was gonna say!

 

As both my grandfathers were also war veterans (one is still alive, the other passed away) I too would like to extend my sincere gratitude to all veterans, both inside and outside my country. I hope it never becomes unfashionable to show our thanks to these men and women.

Edited November 13, 2005 by Mothman

[Walsingham]

I must say it really helps whenever I hear other people who feel the same way.

 

In the UK there isn't a single town or village without a war memorial. So many died. Yet in too many places you see them neglected or worse covered in trash/vomit/urine. I try to clean them up when I have a moment. People look at me as if I'm crazy.

 

I often think of the poor sods who have no other resting place than that big stone. Young men who would love nothing better than to be out clubbing and eating kebabs, but never got the chance because they risked all to serve.

 

I remember these guys at times like this. But I also think of them when I'm out having a great time, and hope this is just as worthy. I know too many soldiers to think they'd want nothing but solemnity after their passing.

[Cantousent]

Because we have a life of freedom and luxury, it only makes sense that we have turned our backs on the men who died to provide it for us. It is fashionable to say that all wars are bad and, because the sentiment is unchecked, it leads us to believe that there must have been something wrong with the men who fought in them. Not all wars are bad. Britain could have made peace with Germany during World War Two. They did not. War, with all its terrors, was better than peace under nazi power.

 

My grandfather fought against the Japanese at Guadal Canal. He did not die then, but it certainly wasn't for the Japanese trying. Event he Germans and Japanese who fought, we cannot comdemn them en mass. They had a home for which they were fighting, and love ones whom they defended.

 

Remembrance doesn't mean condemning the enemy soldiers, no matter how right your cause. It means honoring your dead.

[Krookie]

As far as I know, my town has two memorials. One very big one:

 

The other one I don't have a photo of, it's in the center of town and honors the war in Korea. The one above is for WWII.

[Walsingham]

Do you guys get people sitting on your war memorials, and leaving kebab meat and lager cans lying about?

[Surreptishus]

I don't think thats a direct disrespect for war memorials more a symptom of of disrespect and loutish behaviour in general.

[Walsingham]

I agree it's not as if the rest of town is clean and pure. However, while I've done my fair share of careening around town centres singing songs about goblins I've yet to desecrate a war memorial. ATM's, rosebushes, squaddies and nurses, yes. But not war memorials.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I share my birthday with rememberance day.

 

The poppy foundation is the only human charity I will contribute to, so yes I have a lot of respect for the people who died in that war. Both sides, since my grandfathers brother married a German woman at the end of WWII and you couldnt have met a nicer person.

[Drakron]

(Ruins of Monte Cassino. A town the Allies fought through in the Liberation of Italy. The scale of the devastation reveals some of the scale of the fighting.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You know of all examples you could have selected you picked one of the worst.

 

That was a example of sheer stupidity, the allies bombed a monestary (its not a town) and then the german troops dig in the ruins.

[Sargallath Abraxium]

...in Canada, Remembrance Day was Friday the 11th (also my birthday)...as a former member of the Canadian Forces, the grandson of a Veteran, and the great grandson of both a WWII Veteran who survived the horrors of Juno Beach on D-Day (my mother's mother's father) and a Veteran of WWI (my mother's father's father), I can't get over the fact that Canada still refuses to make Remembrance Day a National Holiday (in fact, only in Nova Scotia, my home province, is it even a Provincial Holiday)...it truly sickens me that Canada shows absolutely no compassion for those that serve their country... <_<

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Surreptishus]

Its not a national holiday in the UK either. Two minutes silense is observed nationallly at 11am with a religious service the following sunday.

[Delta Truth]

Remeberance day is an important day as any one who has put on the uniform or wears the uniform should be thanked and honored for all the sacrifices they have made. But I look at it as ww2 is over 60 years ago and people should honor the vets of the current

 

Just so everyone knows my family does not celebrated this holiday, part of that is because my background is not British (actually half German) and we don't have a military family.

 

My father was actually a small kid in Germany during the war and remembers the bombing, and my grandfather was conscripted into the German army , yes I hope not everyone is ignorant into thinking because of that you! were all nazi and that crap cause its all not true.. One no one in my family is anti semite, and two if you didn't fight you would be shot or sent into a camp...

 

But the way I see things changing with immigration and such less and less people can directly relate to ww2 especially and with that I think more emphaise should be placed on what this current generation has known (like Canada ) we are essentially a peace keeping nation

[metadigital]

"They shall not grow old, as we who are left grow old:

 

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

 

At the going down of the sun and in the morning

 

We shall remember them. "

 

- Laurence Binyon

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lest we forget, Wals, the ONLY positives are dying for a cause you believe in and never growing old.

 

My father joined up underage (nineteen) to the Sixth Division (Sixteenth Brigade) training in "Palestine" for the advance to Benghazi with General Wavell.

 

Then, after being bombed out of Crete by the German Stukas and rescued by the Royal Navy (a British Captain rammed his destroyer into the sinking troop ship my father was on to enable the troops to jump straight onto the deck), he was given a couple of weeks R&R before being re-deployed into New Guinea along the Kokoda Trail.

 

He fell ill with malaria twice, once in the Middle East and once in the Pacific and came close to death.

 

His mother (my Grandmother, whose father was in the Irish Guard) was very worried when all three of her sons went off to war; fortunately all three came back (Arthur was also a digger, but their brother, my uncle, Bruce (!!) won a DFC in the Battle of Britain).

 

He died about five years ago (December 19, 1999). He used to be fond of saying, about his nose, "Never lost a fight". I miss him.

Edited November 16, 2005 by metadigital

[Krookie]

Do you guys get people sitting on your war memorials, and leaving kebab meat and lager cans lying about?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No way. On Cabage Night (the night before Halloween if you call it something different) a couple kids from a neighboring town though it would be funny to smash in the lights that are mounted below the memorial. A teacher in my town flipped out, hunted the kids down and pressed charges.

[Moose]

I hate to be the cynical b8stard here, but tbh I find all this 2 minutes silence and the reciting of poems etc, the marchings and parades, utter crap...

 

It's just something people do to feel good about themselves, it's entirely superficial.

 

Spend a moment thinking about some old guy who fought for his country, and wash away the guilt that around 46% of war veterans are living on less than

Edited November 15, 2005 by Moose

[Cantousent]

Is it impossible to have both? Give a moments thought to the dead but support policies that provide for veterans?

[Moose]

Why is it I see so much thought (the amount TV and media coverage - hell there was even an Eastenders special to cater for the chavs), and so little real support. The sums don't quite add up. Clearly a lot of people are bullsh8tting themselves and others around them.

Edited November 15, 2005 by Moose

[metadigital]

Why is it I see so much thought (the amount TV and media coverage - hell there was even an Eastenders special to cater for the chavs), and so little real support. The sums don't quite add up. Clearly a lot of people are bullsh8tting themselves and others around them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're forgetting the total lack of ability in the government to organise a drinking session in a brewery.

 

I saw a headline today that reported the cost of Public Service pensions is estimated at

[Walsingham]

I have absolutely no idea about the whole pension thing. I'm keeping my cash and moving abroad when I get to that age, if I'm lucky enough to still be alive.

 

Moose you do make a good point. I think a lot of people do tramp about and wear the poppy wihtout a thought in their heads for our veterans OR the dead ten minutes later. However, for the priviledge of feeling good about themselves they have to 'buy' a poppy, and that is some good at least.

 

Personally, I try to do my bit, not just by sponsoring a charity, but by talking and helping veterans, and by educating the ignorant about their sacrifices. I recall an incident two years ago where I go stuck on a commuter train in mid-summer, the air-conditioning had broken and everyone was bitching. I started telling stories my grandfather gave me about the desert, and moved on to other stories, and pretty soon everyone had shut up complaining in the immediate vicinity. People were sharing water and so on.

 

Primarily though it is kids and teenagers who seem to have no concept at all of what people went through for them. Or, indeed, what servicemen are expected to go through today. Education here is important not just for the veterans but also to appreciate the costs of mass war. Every time I hear someone talking about 'those muslims' or 'the chinese' I wonder if my kids will be forced to go through something similar, because we have forgotten what war means.

 

EDIT: I do know the history of Monte Cassino, BTW. The consensus of history was that it was unnecessarily bombed. I certainly think it proved (like Stalingrad) that airpower only goes so far. However, the consensus of the first hand accounts I have heard is that it was terrible for morale to have this fortress looking thing overlooking the entire region. The veterans, the guys we are talking about here, say it had to go.

 

*shrugs*