Bioware gets eaten?

[Volourn]

That's my point. JE didn't need to sell 1 mil or 2 mil to be a financial success. Anyone who assumed that BIO's name was the equal of D&D or SW or even better comparison Squaresoft or Blizzard are smokin' dope.

 

BIO may be a big boy amongst RPG groupies; but in the larger game market they arne't a Big Boy.

 

 

"Actually only half the KotOR sales should have been expected since KotOR is on two platforms and Jade Empire was only on one. I am sure JE would have reached the 1 millionth mark by now if it was on both PC and X Box."

 

Shhh.. Don't tell people this.

 

 

"Really, wasn't aware, how so?"

 

Read interviews, and previews of the game. Espicially the early ones. Supposedly Obsidian 'reports' to BIo once a month to go over the game and Bio gives suggestion on toolset, engine, and campaign so it 'honours NWN's legacy'.

 

I'm sure NWN2News has the clippinsg as well as BIO does if you do a search. It's old though so I'm not gonna dig again.

 

 

 

"They thought about porting it.

 

They decided not too.

 

There is a reason why"

 

More like they had no real intention to except an outside chance; but decided to say everything BUT no. Read between the lines. They're doing the same exact thing with ME.

Edited November 3, 2005 by Volourn

[kumquatq3]

Anyone who assumed that BIO's name was the equal of D&D or SW or even better comparison Squaresoft or Blizzard are smokin' dope.

 

Shhh.. Don't tell the BIO people this.

 

again tho

 

They thought about porting it.

 

They decided not too.

 

There is a reason why

Edited November 3, 2005 by kumquatq3

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

"In Canadian money it is. Isn't $50 canadian like $5 USD?"

 

R00fles! (w00t)

 

"1. It's not always a good idea to do named material since you may not be able to break away from it.

2. Bioware can't stand on it's own feet in the market without a license to carry it. "

 

Yeah, 600k+ copies in about 6 MONTHS (with no expansions). Oh the horror! Not!

 

Anyone whoe xpected JE to do KOTOR (on two systems), or Bg series (2 games +2 expansions), or NWN (+2 expansions) is just plain silly.

 

And, dumb.

 

And, doesn't know anything about the market.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

For a company of Biowares stature thats pathetic Didnt KOTOR sell nearly half a mil in the first week or something like that? Especially when you factor the advertising. JE had a trailer in UK cinema's I remember wondering how much it cost when I watched it.

 

Other companies do fine with their own IP's so why do we excuse Bioware ?

[Volourn]

Question: What big difference was there for JE and KOTOR when it came to porting or multi platforiming? KOTOR was *always* planned as a multiplatform. JE never was.

 

In fact, the very reason why BIo chose the xbox (and MS) over its competitors is because they felt that the x-box was the best machine for that particular game. That's why it wans't ported nor was it ever intended to be ported. If it was they would have assuredly started on a port even before its x-box release.

 

Game over.

 

 

"Other companies do fine with their own IP's so why do we excuse Bioware ? "

 

Yo, McFly, 600k+ copies in 6 months doesn't need to eb exused. Last i checked, that's more than fitting for the definition of fine. Since when did the blockbuster' of 1 mil copies all of assuden become the idea of 'fine'.

 

 

R00fles!

Edited November 3, 2005 by Volourn

[kumquatq3]

More like they had no real intention to except an outside chance; but decided to say everything BUT no. Read between the lines. They're doing the same exact thing with ME.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

........outside chance it was a solid success?

 

 

Bio gives suggestion on toolset, engine, and campaign so it 'honours NWN's legacy'.

 

So....just like with K2?

 

I don't think their getting cut, it's possible, but I think the advice on the toolsets/engine is a result of the fees paid for the engine.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yo, McFly, 600k+ copies in 6 months doesn't need to eb exused. Last i checked, that's more than fitting for the definition of fine. Since when did the blockbuster' of 1 mil copies all of assuden become the idea of 'fine'.

 

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

When you have TV and cinema advertising it most certainly does.

 

One mil has always been the magic number when it comes to console sales.

 

This is common sense, or should be. It's also not just about the numbers but how fast you sell them and how long they keep their prices.

[Atreides]

You guys should adjust figures to take into account the number of games (expansions not included etc), equiv time period (6 months), number of platforms (though KOTOR probably hurt because of ppl planning for PC) etc. Probably for game competition at that time, levels of advertising etc.

 

Saying X mil > 600k is most likely misleading.

[kumquatq3]

Saying X mil > 600k is most likely misleading.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lets all be honest, we're all arguing with lots of assumptions about alot of things.

 

We're basically arguing about who has the right assumptions. :D

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Lets all be honest, we're all arguing with lots of assumptions about alot of things.

 

We're basically arguing about who has the right assumptions.  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pretty much. I still say you dont waste money on UK cinema advertising (I dont go often so there may be more, but JE is the only time I've seen a game on the big screen that way) if you think that just over half a million is a success.

[Atreides]

Yea, comparing Jade Empire's 6 recent months sale to date on a XBOX (not sure if it's even on PS2) and the PC BG series's (pick any one) cumulative sales of 5? years is going to take a lot of adjustment to get any meaningful interpretation.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yea, comparing Jade Empire's 6 recent months sale to date on a XBOX (not sure if it's even on PS2) and the PC BG series's (pick any one) cumulative sales of 5? years is going to take a lot of adjustment to get any meaningful interpretation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well thats really Biowares fault for keeping long term figures they are essentially worthless as measure of profit :D

 

With a few exceptions you can tell within a month (or 2 weeks) how succesful a game will be. Jade Empires been on budget since last month

[SteveThaiBinh]

Oh, for heaven's sake, I'm sorry I brought up Jade Empire's sales. Wasn't this discussed at length on another thread? It was just my ill-informed speculation.

 

I'm still wondering why an independent developer with enough money and reputation to finance and publish its own games would surrender some of that independence, unless it has money problems.

[Fionavar]

I know this does not need to be mentioned - but I know you will all humour me - please refrain from baiting/insulting one another. Discuss the topic, not the member. If that is too difficult, I can arrange for a Cone of Silence for anyone needing a timeout.

 

 

FLoSD.ObE

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Oh, for heaven's sake, I'm sorry I brought up Jade Empire's sales.  Wasn't this discussed at length on another thread?  It was just my ill-informed speculation. 

 

I'm still wondering why an independent developer with enough money and reputation to finance and publish its own games would surrender some of that independence, unless it has money problems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't be , that could be what triggered this.

 

Bioware is perfectly aware they wont survive on games that put out those numbers. Another thing that will have been a factor is the increase in cost of next gen production and the lower returns because the next gen wont have reached a saturation point.

 

It is starting to look like the reputation may have been over rated.

[Atreides]

With a few exceptions you can tell within a month (or 2 weeks) how succesful a game will be. Jade Empires been on budget since last month

Edited November 3, 2005 by Atreides

[alanschu]

P.S. Hades, I never said BIo was dead. I said they were no longer independent. Big difference.

 

 

Actually you did. Here

 

Huh? It *is* the end. They are no longer independent. The Doctors no longer have absolute final nor the only say. They have new partners whose opinion is equal to theirs now.

 

Period.

 

 

 

In any case, people are making too big of a deal out of this. Hades sees that EA acquisitions go wrong, and then extrapolates it to Elevation's acquisition?

 

According to my friend pretty much nothing has changed. I'm not going to talk to much about it though, to make sure I don't say anything that might get him in trouble.

 

 

 

EDIT: ShadowPaladin, you're reading too much into the output of their first IP game and generalizing it too much.

Edited November 3, 2005 by alanschu

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I wouldn't agree on this because that time period's too short and vulnerable to circumstances (huricanes or release with other games for example).  I'd have more confidence making comparisons over a reasonable amount of time - say a year.

 

Base line - extrapolating Bioware's demise from unadjusted and uninformed (profit-wise) numbers is silly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You really dont need a year. Generally once a game hits the bargain bin thats that. Most games wont keep their price even 6 months (or less) only a few will manage a year and only some very exceptional games will manage longer.

 

I don't know about the others but I'm not extrapolaiting their demise only highlighting factors that may have led to this.

 

As long as they are trading they are still "alive"

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

EDIT:  ShadowPaladin, you're reading too much into the output of their first IP game and generalizing it too much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Maybe , but they do only have one IP. And I really dont think given the effort they took in pushing it that they expected such comparitively low sales.

 

I have said that Mass Effect will be important for that reason.

[alanschu]

I'm not saying it did (or did not) underperform.

 

 

But it seems like you're making generalizations that Bioware cannot do their own IP.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I'm not saying it did (or did not) underperform.

 

 

But it seems like you're making generalizations that Bioware cannot do their own IP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is the evidence thus far as I see it. Or at least could not continue to put out those numbers without "restructuring".

Edited November 3, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Judge Hades]

This is also their first only console title as well as their own IP. I think that has to be factored in as well.

[alanschu]

I'm not saying it did (or did not) underperform.

 

 

But it seems like you're making generalizations that Bioware cannot do their own IP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is the evidence thus far as I see it. Or at least could not continue to put out those numbers without "restructuring".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The sample size is too small to draw conclusions. Many game companies have games that don't perform up to expectations, and they don't disappear just because of it.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The sample size is too small to draw conclusions.  Many game companies have games that don't perform up to expectations, and they don't disappear just because of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is all speculative anyway. I'm not directly involved in any way. They wont disapear, even with a very wounded beast that takes time (IP anyone). And Bioware are not wounded. But I do think the performance of JE has been a wake up of sorts.

[Judge Hades]

Who is the head guy? Oh, a former EA git.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Who is the head guy?  Oh, a former EA git.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

head guy of what ?