KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[cwoocat05]

In KOTOR III you should begin your quest as an apprentice to a jedi master. Maybe somewhere along the way the master dies and you take over and get sent out on a quest to deal with any problems on other worlds. Through out your journey to mysterious worlds, you unravel a sinister plot involving the EXCHANGE. You will also meet allies around the galaxy and ultimately train one as your apprentice. The storyline can have your character and your apprentice and any other followers set on a mission to find out the origins of the exchange and the new threat facing the galaxy. You also learn along the way that a new sith threat has risen up in secret and you must now deal with both THE EXCHANGE and the new sith. You will encounter sith lords, EXCHANGE BOSSES, prestiges bounty hunters and all their associatied operating scum. There needs to be another fighting arena like the "dueling ring" in the first KOTOR. I liked the idea in the second KOTOR about have your character being hunted, but that idea wasn't fully developed. KOTOR III needs to develop into something involving the destruction of the exchange around the galaxy and extermination of the new sith threat. Like always you have decisions and dialogue choices. Also for the beginning of the game, when a creating a character, let the player choose all the feats, instead of having the intial ones chosen for them. New upgrades for Vibroblades and lightsabers will be prevalent as well as more upgrading parts and places for them.

 

Insertion:

 

Please feel free to contribute to the ongoing discussion. There is a lot of interest in this topic and keeping input centralised and presented in a clear and articulate manner will have more impact and influence than posting to the contrary

 

See previous threads:

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Note: As the ongoing discussion has found a new home in C&C and the transfer of Part 11 seems to have become corrupted to a certain extent, a brand new part 12 is here for constructive and respectful participation.

Edited November 2, 2005 by Fionavar

[Fionavar]

Thread pruned. Please try to post in a constructive manner.

[metadigital]

Moral grey areas are a ripe area for gameplay.

 

The chaotic good character that must choose whether to perform some unspeakably evil act in order to provide for a good future for the many, at the expense of a few (even if they are scum Sith) ... or, even better, the evil character that must choose whether to (knowingly) perform an act which has magnanimous benefits for a multitude of enemies in order to set up a dark age of evil ...

 

This can be scaled from the small to the galactic, from the beginning to the end of the game; it would be good to see the point at which the player flinches / blinks / won't step beyond. A masterstroke would be to use that information against the player in the latter part of the game.

 

But that's just me.

[Fionavar]

Thread Pruned: OK - we'll try one more time to encourage constructive posting. Consider not doing so at this point as an invitation for posting privileges to be reviewed at the Big Green's Roost ...

[Musopticon?]

So what did I miss?

 

 

About the thread subject: Well, I'd appreciate a relatively jediless game. They're just so boring and the game's focus could be on characters and not on crystal hoarding and kewl force powahs. More on that subject; mercenaries and smugglers are a nifty theme. And it might be interesting to get to know the galaxy better.

[CoM_Solaufein]

What's the point of buying this game if it was Jediless? That would be boring.

[Petay]

^Have you never heard of SW: Battlefront?

Or SW: Republic Commando?

 

They were fun enough without Jedi in them...

Edited October 31, 2005 by Petay

[Musopticon?]

I'm just sick of the institution. And jediless does not mean forceless.

[Meshugger]

If possible, one can use this thread to add more rumors(if there are any) to this thread.

[hawk]

Good that someone is making an attempt to renew the topic and post a storyline proposal. Allthough the idea is okay, I tend to disagree witht this storyline. First of all, the exchange does play a major role in Kotor II but they are not what we are really looking for in "Knights of the Old Republic", in the Exchange you don't have "Knights", only a bunch of criminals.

 

No, the main plot should be about the Sith and the Mandalorians in Kotor III, remember that we don't know yet why the Mandalorians attacked the republic and that Revan knows this, that is why he left for the unknown regions. And the Exile leaves republic space to go after the true sith for much the same reason.

 

It would work much better if Kotor III is about these True sith, the Mandalorian wars and why wouldn't your main character start in Unknown Sith space? Now that would make a nice variety to what we have allready seen so many times. And let the plot twist the way that the Sith see you as a traitor.

I guess it would be quiet exciting

[metadigital]

I'm just sick of the institution. And jediless does not mean forceless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but the proviso is that there must be at least one KNIGHT in the game, somewhere ...

Good[1] that someone is making an attempt to renew the topic and post a storyline proposal. Allthough the idea is okay, I tend to disagree with this storyline. First of all, the exchange does play a major role in Kotor II but they are not what we are really looking for in "Knights of the Old Republic", in the Exchange you don't have "Knights", only a bunch of criminals.[2]

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. I don't believe that any developers will be looking for story ideas from any external source, much less from rabid forum fanatics. But that's just me: you go ahead and post your story ideas, if it makes you happy.
    
   
2. I don't agree: a "knight" can just as well be defined by character, rather than some external frame of reference, like wearing a dress made out of a sack, waving a glow stick and mixing parts of speech around in spoken sentences.
    
   Further to this, (for argument's sake) there is an opportunity for some sort of archeologist-type character to come along after a period of time and "rediscover" the Force and Jedi (Sith) teachings, and perhaps synthesise them into a "Jedi 2.0" religion.
   

No, the main plot should be about the Sith and the Mandalorians in Kotor III, remember that we don't know yet why the Mandalorians attacked the republic and that Revan knows this, that is why he left for the unknown regions. And the Exile leaves republic space to go after the true sith for much the same reason.

 

It would work much better if Kotor III is about these True sith, the Mandalorian wars and why wouldn't your main character start in Unknown Sith space? Now that would make a nice variety to what we have allready seen so many times. And let the plot twist the way that the Sith see you as a traitor.

I guess it would be quiet exciting

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Revan and Exile can be lost in the outer limits, or die heroically in some critical self-sacrificing manner to give the protagonist in the sequel a window of opportunity over the antagonists, or even turn up in the end-game to deliver some crucial bit of intel that will help the new protagonist to complete the final puzzle that will allow for the defeat of the evil / antagonists.

 

See? Lots of options before one has to jump for the predictably obvious and decidedly tenuous "True Sith" plot device.

 

And plenty of scope for a Force-Sensitive-but-ignorant smuggler or mercenary (or even librarian) to do "battle" (broad sense: as in wits rather than swords) with the universe (as they are beneath the radar of the baddies at the beginning of the game, and have developed some skill by the time they are noticed).

 

I just hope any sequels are not surrounding a "chosen one".

[hawk]

Revan and Exile can be lost in the outer limits, or die heroically in some critical self-sacrificing manner to give the protagonist in the sequel a window of opportunity over the antagonists, or even turn up in the end-game to deliver some crucial bit of intel that will help the new protagonist to complete the final puzzle that will allow for the defeat of the evil / antagonists.

 

See? Lots of options before one has to jump for the predictably obvious and decidedly tenuous "True Sith" plot device.

 

And plenty of scope for a Force-Sensitive-but-ignorant smuggler or mercenary (or even librarian) to do "battle" (broad sense: as in wits rather than swords) with the universe (as they are beneath the radar of the baddies at the beginning of the game, and have developed some skill by the time they are noticed).

 

I just hope any sequels are not surrounding a "chosen one".

I take it that it wouldn't surprise you that I wouldn't agree with you here, Revan and the Exile die for some sort of sacrifice during or before our game starts?

Please No! I mean, one or both of them could be DS and I wouldn't think a Sith Lord would sacrifice him/herself for our new hero to give them a window of opportunity wouldn't it. Not to mention that lots of fans will not be happy to hear that the people we played, became attached to in the first two games are both dead.

It is certainly not so difficult to select faces for both characters and find voice actors for both genders.

About the other suggestion, yes yes, we saw movies like Under Siege where "the cook" saved the ship from terrorists. When you play "Farcry" you play as a sailer and when your ship was attacked you kill 100's of terrorists. Yes, yes we have seen it all before.

And the heroes of the OT where: a farmboy (Luke), a smuggler (Han), a businessman (Lando) and a diplomat (Leia). There where no Jedi except for Obi Wan and Yoda.

And then, there are quiet a few Jedi left in the Kotor era, you could train some of the characters to become Jedi and I don't see why the story shouldn't be build around some "chosen one" who is somehow connected to a character we allready know.

Some characters that I think should be taken back in no. III in order not to fail: Bastila, Revan, the Exile, Canderous, HK-47, T3-M4 and other possibilities are Carth, Atton, Bao Dur.

[Musopticon?]

I have to agree with meta. A fresh way.

[metadigital]

I take it that it wouldn't surprise you that I wouldn't agree with you here, Revan and the Exile die for some sort of sacrifice during or before our game starts?

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bingo.

...

Please No! I mean, one or both of them could be DS and I wouldn't think a Sith Lord would sacrifice him/herself for our new hero to give them a window of opportunity wouldn't it. Not to mention that lots of fans will not be happy to hear that the people we played, became attached to in the first two games are both dead.

It is certainly not so difficult to select faces for both characters and find voice actors for both genders.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are being too blinkered in your interpretation of character. Just because a character is evil, doesn't mean they value their own skin more than everything else. The greatest Sith Lord might very well sacrifice herself to bring about an apocalypse to destroy the enemies of evil, for example.

 

As to the characters appearing again, they are too powerful to play as characters (unless the developers invoke the oldest technique in story-telling since stories were told, namely the old amnesia trick ... ugh).

 

Let them die to balance the force, or something else non-specific and sufficiently far away from the gameplay.

About the other suggestion, yes yes, we saw movies like Under Siege where "the cook" saved the ship from terrorists. When you play "Farcry" you play as a sailer and when your ship was attacked you kill 100's of terrorists. Yes, yes we have seen it all before.

And the heroes of the OT where: a farmboy (Luke), a smuggler (Han), a businessman (Lando) and a diplomat (Leia). There where no Jedi except for Obi Wan and Yoda.

And then, there are quiet a few Jedi left in the Kotor era, you could train some of the characters to become Jedi and I don't see why the story shouldn't be build around some "chosen one" who is somehow connected to a character we allready know.

Some characters that I think should be taken back in no. III in order not to fail: Bastila, Revan, the Exile, Canderous, HK-47, T3-M4 and other possibilities are Carth, Atton, Bao Dur.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. The "cook" in Under Siege was in fact an undercover Navy Seal body guard, so more like the "chosen one" than not;
   
2. I wasn't merely implying that "the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time" theme was more novel, I was highlighting just how unbelievable it is to have Revan (the chosen one) and Exile (the other chosen one, who creates echoes in the Force) and a third chosen one in the third game: which one is the most chosen?
   
3. Your evidence works against you, too: all the examples you quote are much better games for using the plot and character devices they do; I'd even add Half-Life and Half-Life 2, as well.
   
4. Bastila is dead. I killed her in K1. Canderous is boring AND over-used. Revan and the Exile are overpowered for any game, unless they are an enemy. And how much fun would that be to all the bleeding-hearted whiners who love them so much they want to see them again? Yeah, I'll bet they'd like that. Leave the characters in the past, where their memory is unspoilt by meagre re-invention.
   
5. If I were being cruel I would mention that, psycho-analytically, wanting to play a "chosen one" character is to compensate for being a complete non-entity failure IRL. But I won't.
   

[Plano Skywalker]

I agree that the games would be much better if you did not HAVE to be a jedi.

However, as long as they call it "Knights of the Old Republic" I think the primary protagonist and primary antagonist will be lightsaber-wielding Force users.

 

So then, the question is whether we can play as someone other than the primary protagonist. That is one avenue that I think has been woefully underexplored in the cRPG and I really wouldn't mind that being explored in these games.

 

But the ability to choose to play a Jedi is pretty much a must, I think.

[metadigital]

Yes, but being a Force Sensitive doesn't equate automatically to being a Jedi (or Sith).

 

I still think the Echani (or Miralukas, or some others) should form the anti-Force forces and kill the Force, to allow complete freedom for the galaxy and prevent the Force from controlling everyone's destiny ...

[Plano Skywalker]

the Force as the storyline? gee, that sounds familiar.

 

indeed, it is the shortcut device from hell. we may see it in K3 in order to wrap up what we are in now. however, going forward, that will not do.

[metadigital]

I want to KILL the Force, not serve it milk and cookies!

[Gabrielle]

I want to KILL the Force, not serve it milk and cookies!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No you can't kill it. It must survive.

[Jedihuh?]

obviously you can't kill it, specially if everything fromt he EU to the movies and all that are supposed to attempt to run somewhat together. (which I know there are alot of problems with that). I think the game should wrap up what was left of the first and second one. if you don't want to be a jedi play a different game. or maybe they will make a game with a different tittle, and different story all together. As for KOTOR the jedi are the "Knights of the Old Republic" Hence the name.

[vaxen83]

Probably might have some sense of variety in the way the force is harnessed by different force users. (Variance between different characters who use the force)

 

Initial class might not need to be a Jedi class (Although either a Jedi or Prestige class may be encountered later in the game)

 

Besides, there may be some feats that come with non-Jedi classes which Prestige and Jedi classes are excluded from.

[hawk]

I don't really understand why people are complaining not wanting to play as a Jedi. The Kotor games do not force you in any way to use force powers and a lightsaber.

I wonder if these people ever played the game using armor, melee weapons, blasters, stimulants, stealth, mines, grenades (and off course equip a force mask).

See, I bet it is possible to play the game without anything Jedi/Sithish. Jedi robes, force powers and the lightsaber are only additions to the game.

But off course, if there are good reasons why someone wouldn't like to start as some Jedi class, lets hear it.

I do remember how many people played Kotor I by never leveling up on Taris, effectively making a character level 2 s* class/18 jedi class.

Edited November 1, 2005 by hawk

[metadigital]

obviously you can't kill it, specially if everything fromt he EU to the movies and all that are supposed to attempt to run somewhat together. (which I know there are alot of problems with that). I think the game should wrap up what was left of the first and second one. if you don't want to be a jedi play a different game. or maybe they will make a game with a different tittle, and different story all together. As for KOTOR the jedi are the "Knights of the Old Republic"  Hence the name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why obviously? When did GL die and bequeath the SW IP to you?

 

If you play K2 and understand some of the deeper philosophical bases the developers have attempted to include, you will know that it is perfectly possible, especially if the Force wills it. The Force doesn't exist in parts of the galaxy already, if we are to believe what we are told in K2. It isn't much of a stretch to kill it off in the galaxy (even temporarily), or make it more difficult to invoke (so that every schutta and his droid can wield a lightsabre).

 

I think it would be a novel plot for a sequel, but it certainly is possible that blinkered fanboys would not be pleased unless they got the same game AGAIN.

I don't really understand why people are complaining not wanting to play as a Jedi. The Kotor games do not force you in any way to use force powers and a lightsaber.

I wonder if these people ever played the game using armor, melee weapons, blasters, stimulants, stealth, mines, grenades (and off course equip a force mask).

See, I bet it is possible to play the game without anything Jedi/Sithish. Jedi robes, force powers and the lightsaber are only additions to the game.

But off course, if there are good reasons why someone wouldn't like to start as some Jedi class, lets hear it.

I do remember how many people played Kotor I by never leveling up on Taris, effectively making a character level 2 s* class/18 jedi class.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are good points, but they are more relevant to K1; in K2 you start as a Jedi, not a soldier, scoundrel or scout. Not so much fun roleplaying a pseudo-class.

[random evil guy]

i've said it before and i'll say it again, one should start off as a sith this time around. would really be a fresh aproach to the star wars universe. see things from their perspective and eventually decide whether to go good or continue to be bad...

[random evil guy]

I just hope any sequels are not surrounding a "chosen one".

 

well, the main character has to be 'important', otherwise the story would be relatively meaningless. whether he is 'chosen' or not, is, imo, a bit irrelevant.