So... Christianity, but more specific.

[Rosbjerg]

I think we need ideas, beleifs or ideologies as much as a healthy person needs sex. speaking of, any smukke women in here? "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

hehe.. I see you've learned something today?

[Hurlshort]

Shadowknight seems pretty dismissive with religion. You compare it to a blanky that the modern man should discard because he is above previous generations. I don't think we are so far ahead as that. This is still a violent and often harsh world. The basic tenants of the major world religions are still very important. I don't know all of you very well, but I assume you don't commit random acts of violence, take whatever you want, and treat women like objects.

[Rosbjerg]

I don't know all of you very well, but I assume you don't commit random acts of violence, take whatever you want, and treat women like objects.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

no you clearly don't know us very well ...

[WITHTEETH]

I think we need ideas, beleifs or ideologies as much as a healthy person needs sex. speaking of, any smukke women in here? "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

hehe.. I see you've learned something today?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, if i ever go to denmark, i will be able to woo the felines!

[Dark Moth]

Im not saying that its NOT a need to eat or breath, im stating that ideologies, ideas/ beliefs are also a neccesities to some. merely an addition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Too some yes. I was never disputing that. Only that they are not universal needs. Which by definition makes them comforts, they make people feel better. Like the blanky example.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, humans do tend to need a belief. Beliefs are what help give a person identity and purpose. They are not necessary to our very existance, but then again, are ideals also what help make us human?

[WITHTEETH]

Shadowknight seems pretty dismissive with religion.  You compare it to a blanky that the modern man should discard because he is above previous generations.  I don't think we are so far ahead as that.  This is still a violent and often harsh world.  The basic tenants of the major world religions are still very important.  I don't know all of you very well, but I assume you don't commit random acts of violence, take whatever you want, and treat women like objects.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What makes this world violoent? what makes this world harsh? Is there only one optoin to helping cure these epedemics? no, but the more the merrier. I don't want to tell anyone they are wrong to choosing a different set of beliefs then i. Keep your individuality, it makes you special!

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Shadowknight seems pretty dismissive with religion.  You compare it to a blanky that the modern man should discard because he is above previous generations.  I don't think we are so far ahead as that.  This is still a violent and often harsh world.  The basic tenants of the major world religions are still very important.  I don't know all of you very well, but I assume you don't commit random acts of violence, take whatever you want, and treat women like objects.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You could at least get my name right

 

This was a violent and harsh world from the outset long before religion was around. It's still a violent and harsh world even after a couple of millenia of various religions. Doubt ending religion will end the violence, but it would be a change of pace. People would need to come up with some other excuses to harsh on each other.

 

You dont need religion to be a decent person you can teach morals without religion.Religion equally leads to intolerance and the objectification of women (or at least not treating them with equal respect) among other things.

[julianw]

You could at least get my name right

 

This was a violent and harsh world from the outset long before religion was around. It's still a violent and harsh world even after a couple of millenia of various religions. Doubt ending religion will end the violence, but it would be a change of pace. People would need to come up with some other excuses to harsh on each other.

 

You dont need religion to be a decent person you can teach morals without religion.Religion equally leads to intolerance and the objectification of women (or at least not treating them with equal respect) among other things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps you should use "fundamentalism in religion" instead "religion" in your post. In my opinion, if you believe your life has a purpose, then you are religious to me. I believe sects are made for man and god has only one religion and it is to be good. Of course, defining 'good' is entirely another matter.

[WITHTEETH]

Shadowknight seems pretty dismissive with religion.  You compare it to a blanky that the modern man should discard because he is above previous generations.  I don't think we are so far ahead as that.  This is still a violent and often harsh world.  The basic tenants of the major world religions are still very important.  I don't know all of you very well, but I assume you don't commit random acts of violence, take whatever you want, and treat women like objects.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You could at least get my name right

 

This was a violent and harsh world from the outset long before religion was around. It's still a violent and harsh world even after a couple of millenia of various religions. Doubt ending religion will end the violence, but it would be a change of pace. People would need to come up with some other excuses to harsh on each other.

 

You dont need religion to be a decent person you can teach morals without religion.Religion equally leads to intolerance and the objectification of women (or at least not treating them with equal respect) among other things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Becareful ShadowPaladin. your statement on interlerence and the treating women are subjective. That is your point of view that might not be the same to the person next to you. there are many types of religions, you can't dismiss all with one fatal swoop. True, you do not need religion to have morals, as we are examples. Maybe if anything is to blame its civilization not religioin, for that has corrupted us, not in a sense of making us evil but it started the destruction of the planet. just a different perspective. Can we reverse civilization? no. Unless you want to end humanity.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Perhaps you should use "fundamentalism in religion" instead "religion" in your post. In my opinion, if you believe your life has a purpose, then you are religious to me. I believe sects are made for man and god has only one religion and it is to be good. Of course, defining 'good' is entirely another matter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not if I believe I give my life purpose, that has nothing to do with religion.

 

Yep thats a smart god setting their own worshippers against each other. Like I said , no reason to follow such a flawed being may as well follow myself since I have the flawed being thing down perfectly

 

Just what is "good" anyway ?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Becareful ShadowPaladin. your statement on interlerence and the treating women are subjective. That is your point of view that might not be the same to the person next to you. there are many types of religions, you can't dismiss all with one fatal swoop. True, you do not need religion to have morals, as we are examples. Maybe if anything is to blame its civilization not religioin, for that has corrupted us, not in a sense of making us evil but it started the destruction of the planet. just a different perspective. Can we reverse civilization? no. Unless you want to end humanity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't see any women Bishops around do you ? Or any female Clerics for that matter.

 

Therefore I wouldnt call that subjective in the slightest. Homosexuals, nope they are not overly fond of those in most cases, that seems pretty intolerant.

 

Hurlshot did say major religions, so it's not really that broad a sweep if you think about.

Edited October 19, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Time to get some of those "needs" seen to

 

night

[WITHTEETH]

Hinduism is a Major Religion and the gods are asexual in some views for example. Is the Virgin Mary in catholicism a saint? Yes there are some strife with many religions not to be ignorant, but there is also strife amongst secular influences and homosexuality and treating women equal.

 

Peace Paladin

Edited October 19, 2005 by WITHTEETH

[Hurlshort]

I've said it time and time again, organized religion is flawed. But it is a major part of humanity. It has positive and negative influences. It's also not going away anytime soon. Personally I think the only thing scarier than a world with religion is a world without religion. That would be a world where the unfortunate have no reason to hope.

 

There really are two separate conversations here. One deals with belief, and one deals with religion.

 

PS sorry about getting the name wrong, I'm rushing a bit because I'm at work "

Edited October 19, 2005 by Hurlshot

[julianw]

ShadowPaladin - God is personal. Everyone defines purpose for him/herself from within themselves. Religions offer to help, but of course you don't have to take it. But even you can't deny religions must have influenced your personal growth.

 

The religions didn't set their worshippers against each other. They did it themselves out of their own greed and ignorance.

 

The last words of Buddha are "doubt everything, find your own light."

 

Christ tells his followers that let those without sin cast the first stone.

 

All major religions preach peace and tolerance. If the Crusaders or the Imperial Colonizers were never touched by the grace of Christ and read (maybe never truly believed in) words like "love thy neighbour" or "thou shall not kill", who knows how many more sinful crimes they might have committed and how many more lives might have died by their hands?

 

To offer a personal example, me and a few friends were eating at Taco Bell when a homeless person walked in. One Muslim friend then went to the counter and bought an entire meal for the guy, all because prophet Muhammed said something like "the poor and the sick must be taken care of" many centuries ago.

 

The religions are far from making this world perfect, but don't deny how much positive influence they had on mankind.

Edited October 19, 2005 by julianw

[Hurlshort]

To offer a personal example, me and a few friends were eating at Taco Bell when a homeless person walked in. One Muslim friend then went to the counter and bought an entire meal for the guy, all because prophet Muhammed said something like "the poor and the sick must be taken care of" many centuries ago.

 

That is a wonderful example of the charity religion can inspire. The more I read about Islam, the more I appreciate to the teachings of the Qur'an.

 

My opinion: There is more to life than science. We are all unique and capable of great good.

[Darth Launch]

Atheists are always complaining about how religion is always pushed in their face... but I find more atheists push their beliefs in my face... sure I believe in God but I'd never try and convince someone who thought otherwise... we're all entitled to believe what we want

 

DL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you will find a reason for that when your on the verge of some big discovery and you get people saying you cant play god, its likely to annoy you.

 

After all unless you actually talk to god , all you really have to go on is a 2000 year old book which is not only extremely out of date for a realistic world view, but also far from infalliable given it's copying by various people and into various languages.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ermm... methinks you misinterpretted what I said... that is of course you think I move in the highest of scientific circles Just because some of the more "devout" have objections to certain scientific practices doesn't mean that we all do... generalising doesn't become anyone

 

And please, don't assume that because I believe in God that I automatically believe in Christianity or the Bible

 

DL

[Cantousent]

First of all, many atheists carry the trappings of religion. I

[julianw]

One of the problems I see is that people seem only willing to see some of the truth and values in others

[Hurlshort]

You have to keep in mind what type of person posts on this board. Most religious people on these forums will likely have an open mind, just based on the fact they are hanging out in a video game forum. Typical religious folks are not here, they are at church praying for those poor souls playing GTA (major generalization, but it's fun to make it).

 

Athiests don't have churches to go to. It seems that the internet and forums actually are the church of the Atheist. So really you have the most open-minded of religious folk, and then you have the typical atheist. This means that typically it is the atheist that comes off as close-minded in these discussions.

[Tigranes]

Well. Curse timezones and all.

 

Firstly, something that throws a few pages back: when one tries to refute the claim that science, too, is based on faith, think about the fact that scientific theories are only validated by two things:

 

- Statistics. Experiments simply mean "these examples show that the pattern established in this small sample will most likely apply to everything of the same condition."

 

- Conformity with other established theories. Sometimes not, they 'break out' of the mold, but you're usually using established scientific theories to form new ones, and think about them in relation.

 

So we can see the problems of science. I believe it's a very practical decision to use experiments, yes, and I'm not against science. I simply believe that science never intended to give us absolute proof and absolute laws, simply the greatest likelihood through logic and example.

 

------

 

Also, the whole atheist vs christian thing. Of course it was inevitable ( ), but attaching characteristics of (in)tolerance to a specific group in such a small community as this is just as discriminative as racial or sexual ones we so 'abhor'. Exceptions are there to be found, after all.

Edited October 20, 2005 by Tigranes

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well. Curse timezones and all.

 

Firstly, something that throws a few pages back: when one tries to refute the claim that science, too, is based on faith, think about the fact that scientific theories are only validated by two things:

 

- Statistics. Experiments simply mean "these examples show that the pattern established in this small sample will most likely apply to everything of the same condition."

 

- Conformity with other established theories. Sometimes not, they 'break out' of the mold, but you're usually using established scientific theories to form new ones, and think about them in relation.

 

So we can see the problems of science. I believe it's a very practical decision to use experiments, yes, and I'm not against science. I simply believe that science never intended to give us absolute proof and absolute laws, simply the greatest likelihood through logic and example.

 

------

 

Also, the whole atheist vs christian thing. Of course it was inevitable ( ), but attaching characteristics of (in)tolerance to a specific group in such a small community as this is just as discriminative as racial or sexual ones we so 'abhor'. Exceptions are there to be found, after all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heres an interesting thought.Prior to John Snow cholera was through to be caused by bad air, everyone believed that, even the most eminent of scientists. Then Snow came along and proved that it was in the water. Once it was proven, people adapted. Likewise the first microscopes debunked many of the earlier theories. If science has one advantage,it's that it is always moving and adapting. Isnt one of the catch 22's of the bible "proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing" ?

 

Now I don't care what you worship in your own home, you can worship pink elephants and goblins for all I care. However if something that could be a totally fake ideology starts to interfere with progress then it's time to re-evaluate.

Holding back progress for something that could be the biggest hoax ever perpertrated on humanity , well not something I'd ever support.

 

Socitey and religion are bound up from the earliest of times (it's a pretty recent thing that you have secular states) I'm CoE according to my birth certificate, I never had a choice in the matter until much later. Therefore unless society has moved on. Whatever religion it is based on will be seen running throughout it.

[Tigranes]

Agreed, science has shown itself to be adaptable, and therefore there is always a chance that if it's wrong, it will correct itself.

 

Of course, the 'other side' is that how do you know you can trust in science - just like atheists ask, how can you place your faith in God? What if your current belief in, say, gravity is actually as much as 'founded in logic' as the beliefs of people centuries ago that believed the earth wasn't spherical. The point I'm suggesting is that in the end, science is not 'absolute truth' precisely because it keeps adapting (progressing towards truth). I am not saying God > Science or anything, so don't get that idea, but if you say...

 

Holding back progress for something that could be the biggest hoax ever perpertrated on humanity , well not something I'd ever support.

 

Well, is progress as a linear idea really suitable for application upon the real world? Even if it is, how is one to confirm that, for example, cloning (which I am not against, or for) is progress in the desirable direction, or not?

[Hurlshort]

There is also a difference between the progress of technology and the progress of humanity. Has humanity progressed? In many parts of the world, perhaps, but we still have violence, suffering, hunger, and hate. Does science seek to solve these problems?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Agreed, science has shown itself to be adaptable, and therefore there is always a chance that if it's wrong, it will correct itself.

 

Of course, the 'other side' is that how do you know you can trust in science - just like atheists ask, how can you place your faith in God? What if your current belief in, say, gravity is actually as much as 'founded in logic' as the beliefs of people centuries ago that believed the earth wasn't spherical. The point I'm suggesting is that in the end, science is not 'absolute truth' precisely because it keeps adapting (progressing towards truth). I am not saying God > Science or anything, so don't get that idea, but if you say...

 

Holding back progress for something that could be the biggest hoax ever perpertrated on humanity , well not something I'd ever support.

 

Well, is progress as a linear idea really suitable for application upon the real world? Even if it is, how is one to confirm that, for example, cloning (which I am not against, or for) is progress in the desirable direction, or not?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Never said it was. Thats part of the charm , you dont have to be right all the time, just right according to the evidence currently available. You cant have that with religion since to have faith you have to believe you are right 100%.

 

I'm not opposed to people being against things like if someone found the idea of clone degredation, or clone rights a negative for cloning thats fine. However the idea that you cant do something because someone claims a possibly imaginary entity is against is a bit ridiculous.