Oblivion megamovie

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Oh I'm not arguing that, I'm arguing your implication that there's some inherent advantage to having FMVs solely because movies tend to be what makes games popular.  If you're not implying that, then forget what I said.

 

Actually, they're quite dissimilar in the sense that it's the game that inspired the show and not the other way around (well, YGO anyhow, I don't know much about duel masters), so an argument that tries to relate a game's popularity to its relationship with cinematics fails.

 

Not really.  There are MANY advantages to using in-game cutscenes over FMVs, and taken as a whole I think they justify using in-game over FMVs.  Yes, FMVs give off the feeling that they're inherently special, but they also heavily limit how much story you can tell if your vehicle of storytelling is primarily FMVs since you'd be heavily limited by budget concerns.  Thus, smart use of FMVs where it really counts and in-game cutscenes everywhere else is probably the best expenditure of "zots".  I'm sure certain Japanese companies disagree judging on the number of hours of FMVs they produce, but there's a reason why FF7 remains one of the most popular FF-series games in terms of storyline & character despite telling the vast majority of its story without FMVs. 

 

A simple comparison of the character development that occurs between FF7 and FF: Advent Children will prove my point.  If FF: Advent Children occured without the context of FF7 none of its characters would be memorable whatsoever.  It's because of FF7 that AC's eye candy actually has weight, and FF7 did not depend (nor did FF6 or 4, the two other beloved FF games) on FMVs to tell its story whatsoever.

 

Indeed TES NPCs suck, but that has more to do with their crappy design than the lack of FMVs.  There are tons of people out there who are infatuated with BG/BGII/KOTOR characters, and none of those characters were exposed through FMVs, so that there is a testament to why FMVs are not vital to the creation of great stories and characters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wasnt implying that only making the observation about how people bring their movie experience into the game.

 

It's the amine thats kept things going. I think they went pretty much hand in hand.

 

We are not really talking about a game packed with FMV anyway thats simply beyond technology. But special scenes deserve it. I'm never going to forget Yuna performing 1000 words for example, or Yuna and Tidus in the pool in Macalenia woods before they take on the final stage of the journey.

 

At the time of VII the technology wasnt there. Got to be honest the whole FFVII is lost on me, I really didnt like the Materia system and I always liked Tiffa more than Aeris. However there is little doubt that FFVII with FMV would have even more impact. The older Antholologies have FMV intro's and extro's too which certainly bring life and reality to what would otherwise be abstract characters.

 

Personally I think you need FMV for the following.

 

Intro - Pull the player into the world. Pretty much every game has an FMV intro anyway.

 

Points of high drama - anything where you want maximum drama and or emotional impact is best done with FMV.

 

Endings, again this is you rewarding the player for their time, it should be the highest quality possible.

 

Actually most JRPGs follow what I outlined, they are not that FMV heavy in quantity, but rather in quality (as in the scenes will last a long time). Four or 5 good size FMVs will fill a DVD though.

 

It does have a lot to do with how little time is devoted to the characters , another case of quantity over quality. Hopefully they will have more than 10 voice actors doing those 1000 NPCs.

[Azarkon]

Personally I think you need FMV for the following.

 

Intro - Pull the player into the world. Pretty much every game has an FMV intro anyway.

 

Points of high drama - anything where you want maximum drama and or emotional impact is best done with FMV.

 

Endings, again this is you rewarding the player for their time, it should be the highest quality possible.

 

Actually most JRPGs follow what I outlined, they are not that FMV heavy in quantity, but rather in quality (as in the scenes will last a long time). Four or 5 good size FMVs will fill a DVD though.

 

In terms of FMV-driven JRPG narratives (and putting aside my bias against their underlying principle of linear cinematic storytelling), I'd probably agree that Intros & Endings are the moments in which you'd want a FMV if at all possible. However, I'm not sure I like FMV interruptions in the middle of the game. This works sometimes, but because of its subjective nature (ie what I'd consider a high moment may *not* correspond to the developers' impression), it can work or it can backfire really badly and take me out of the immersive experience. Moreover, it also makes the emotional manipulation a tad too transparent, almost as if the game's telling you: "Hey! Look here! Yohoo! Great moment of drama INC!" I prefer a bit more subtlety than that.

[Epiphany]

"WC3 intro easily beat/matched by many next gen games."

 

Oh, I guess it's a bloody good thing that I didn't say "WC3 intro", I said "WarCraft III cutscenes".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Same difference, but whatever floats your boat. The FMV sequences in WC3, or any Blizzard game for that matter, are matched and in some cases surpased by next gen games.

[LoneWolf16]

Um...judging from screenshots, and what I've seen of most next gen games, including Gears of War...Blizzard's cinematics in WC III are either on par with or still manage to out do most, if not all of them.

Edited October 10, 2005 by LoneWolf16

[Meshugger]

"Anyone that's looked at the Final Fantasy 7 tech demo for the PS3, Oblivion, Gears of War, or MGS4 can see that next gen graphics have evolved to a state that FMV is no longer required, or more so, it no longer serves a purpose."

 

Maybe if you're blind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Show me FMV that looks graphically better than those games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*shrugs*

 

This one.

 

Oblivion sure looks promising (aside from the skipping frames), but endless stats, weapons and classes are redudant if there's no good story and characters in the game to keep my interest in it.

Edited October 10, 2005 by Meshugger

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Same difference, but whatever floats your boat. The FMV sequences in WC3, or any Blizzard game for that matter, are matched and in some cases surpased by next gen games."

 

Maybe if you're blind.

[Epiphany]

*shrugs*

 

This one.

 

Oblivion sure looks promising (aside from the skipping frames), but endless stats, weapons and classes are redudant if there's no good story and characters in the game to keep my interest in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The FF12 trailer???

 

lol

 

k

 

I figured people would at least try, by picking next gen FMV to try and prove their point, rather than current gen games.

 

Maybe if you're blind.

 

I can tell that you're... special, so I'll just leave you be.

[Noceur]

Seriously, next gen graphics, simply put, can NOT surpass the quality of a pre-rendered sequence. In those cases they DO, the pre-rendered sequence is lacking in quality. You see, there is no limit whatsoever in what you can do with a pre-rendered sequence.

In next gen games there are limits. No matter how sky-high those limits are, they simply cannot compete with No Limits Whatsoever.

 

And don't you come up with an example for me. Look at any Hollywood movie, why, any movie at all(!) and realize that this is what can be done in a pre-rendered sequence.

 

The only limitation you have in pre-rendered stuff is time, money and resources.

 

Now, for cut-scenes using in-game assets AND game engine... you CAN use a director for those. You can also use the same animators for the in-game cutscence as you do for the pre-rendered one.

 

We've all seen crappy FMVs and great in-game cut-scenes, vice versa.

 

I'd also like to point out that characters don't take up huge amounts of disc-space. You don't need a five hour FMV sequence to make a strong character.

 

Morrowinds characters' aren't bland and dull because of any lack of FMV sequences, they're dull and bland because of reasons that take up very little disc-space... scripting and dialogue (since dialogue in Morrowind is text, not audio).

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Seriously, next gen graphics, simply put, can NOT surpass the quality of a pre-rendered sequence. In those cases they DO, the pre-rendered sequence is lacking in quality. You see, there is no limit whatsoever in what you can do with a pre-rendered sequence.

In next gen games there are limits. No matter how sky-high those limits are, they simply cannot compete with No Limits Whatsoever.

 

And don't you come up with an example for me. Look at any Hollywood movie, why, any movie at all(!) and realize that this is what can be done in a pre-rendered sequence.

 

The only limitation you have in pre-rendered stuff is time, money and resources.

 

Now, for cut-scenes using in-game assets AND game engine... you CAN use a director for those. You can also use the same animators for the in-game cutscence as you do for the pre-rendered one.

 

We've all seen crappy FMVs and great in-game cut-scenes, vice versa.

 

I'd also like to point out that characters don't take up huge amounts of disc-space. You don't need a five hour FMV sequence to make a strong character.

 

Morrowinds characters' aren't bland and dull because of any lack of FMV sequences, they're dull and bland because of reasons that take up very little disc-space... scripting and dialogue (since dialogue in Morrowind is text, not audio).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Epiphany lives in his own little reality anyway. You have about as much chance of getting common sense out of him as you do getting Osama Bin Laden to convert to Christianity.

 

I'd say that depends on how much screen time. You can make a strong character in say KOTOR when you have them around all the time, but Kreia is by far the strongest character there because she gets the most screentime. GOTO is probably the weakest character , although in what order you do the planets will effect how much time you spend with a certain character. TES games because you spend them mostly alone the characters need to make a much stronger impression on you.

 

I think the Olivion characters are all fully voiced , it would be pretty odd if they were not.

Edited October 11, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"I can tell that you're... special, so I'll just leave you be."

 

I can tell that you're a retarded dumb**** who has to resort to cheap shots to "win" arguments.

 

See what I did there?

Edited October 11, 2005 by Sarjahurmaaja.

[Noceur]

(SNIPPED)

I think the Olivion characters are all fully voiced , it would be pretty odd if they were not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yepp, Oblivion is fully voiced. In fact, most of the DVD space is filled with dialogue audio (which is pretty damn much, considering how much you can compress audio these days).

I was refering to Morrowind and its Wiki text-based dialogue

 

EDIT: And yeah, characters become strong by screentime and "acting"... I mean, that's the problem with Morrowind... even if you spent five weeks realtime with Vivec, he'd still just be sitting on air doing nuthing, repeating the same dialogue over and over again.

There's no growth or development in the characters, and THAT'S what makes characters. At least a large part of it.

Edited October 11, 2005 by Noceur

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yepp, Oblivion is fully voiced. In fact, most of the DVD space is filled with dialogue audio (which is pretty damn much, considering how much you can compress audio these days).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm still wondering how it will run without a HD

[Noceur]

Yepp, Oblivion is fully voiced. In fact, most of the DVD space is filled with dialogue audio (which is pretty damn much, considering how much you can compress audio these days).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm still wondering how it will run without a HD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Longer loading times, I'd presume :/ ... perhaps lags when reading from the DVD.

Besides, you'd get no extra content via Live if you don't have a HD.

 

But I don't think it'll change FPS or stuff like that... then again, they do recommend the HD Xbox.

 

EDIT: Erm, probably more lag than longer loading times now that I think about it. The game would have to shove stuff back and forth to RAM/Cache from DVD more often, and the DVD is slower than a HD.

Edited October 11, 2005 by Noceur

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Longer loading times, I'd presume :/ ... perhaps lags when reading from the DVD.

Besides, you'd get no extra content via Live if you don't have a HD.

 

But I don't think it'll change FPS or stuff like that... then again, they do recommend the HD Xbox.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Weird choice not having a HD. After having one on the Xbox its like a step back. You have to be a bit of a Sony fanboy (as well as dellusional) to not see the faster load times.

 

You may get some stutter as it reads I expect, depending on how the data is stored. On the PS2 you get blank spaces sometimes for a few seconds mostly when you switch to stat screens and the like on some games. Not a huge issue, but if your used to the instantaneous nature of a HD you are going to notice it.

[Meshugger]

*shrugs*

 

This one.

 

Oblivion sure looks promising (aside from the skipping frames), but endless stats, weapons and classes are redudant if there's no good story and characters in the game to keep my interest in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The FF12 trailer???

 

lol

 

k

 

I figured people would at least try, by picking next gen FMV to try and prove their point, rather than current gen games.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I should've not even bothered. FMV's take 100 of different clusters 100 hours to be done. Not to mention they have superior lightning and texture size aswell. No next-gen console will be able to match, for instance the intro FMV to Final Fantasy X.

[Epiphany]

I should've not even bothered. FMV's take 100 of different clusters 100 hours to be done. Not to mention they have superior lightning and texture size aswell. No next-gen console will be able to match, for instance the intro FMV to Final Fantasy X.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yet the Killzone video, which was done in engine (all-be-it @ 5fps) looks better than the FF 12 trailer.

 

[face_plain]

[Meshugger]

I should've not even bothered. FMV's take 100 of different clusters 100 hours to be done. Not to mention they have superior lightning and texture size aswell. No next-gen console will be able to match, for instance the intro FMV to Final Fantasy X.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yet the Killzone video, which was done in engine (all-be-it @ 5fps) looks better than the FF 12 trailer.

 

[face_plain]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. It doesn't look better.

2. It will not look that good, it was target-render, meaning that they will get similar graphics. Minus ofcourse the textures, lightning, A.I. and animation.

3. The PS2 promised "Toy-story graphics", yup-yup.

Edited October 11, 2005 by Meshugger

[Epiphany]

1. It doesn't look better.

2. It will not look that good, it was target-render, meaning that they will get similar graphics. Minus ofcourse the textures, lightning, A.I. and animation.

3. The PS2 promised "Toy-story graphics", yup-yup.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sony never claimed the PS2 would do Toy Story graphics. I don't even like Sony that much and even I knew that...

 

The media and MS made those claims, not Sony.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Got to give him props for making such an MS fanboy defend Sony. Not to mention that the best example of next gen graphics was on the PS3 thats was pretty priceless. <just not a laugh icon big enough for this one>

Edited October 11, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Epiphany]

Got to give him props for making such an MS fanboy defend Sony. Not to mention that the best example of next gen graphics was on the PS3 thats was pretty priceless.  <just not a laugh icon big enough for this one>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've been trying to ignore your stupidity, but oh well. I own a PS2, so defending Sony isn't that big of a deal when it comes to current generation tech. The best example of next gen graphics are in Oblivion, Gears of War, Alan Wake, N3, Killzone, MGS4, Lair, Too Human, PGR3, and so on. Carry on with your personal ignorance though, it's becoming amusing.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I've been trying to ignore your stupidity, but oh well.  I own a PS2, so defending Sony isn't that big of a deal when it comes to current generation tech.  The best example of next gen graphics are in Oblivion, Gears of War, Alan Wake, N3, Killzone, MGS4, Lair, Too Human, PGR3, and so on.  Carry on with your personal ignorance though, it's becoming amusing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Still none of them are equal to FMV so the only stupid one here is you I'm afraid. With more space on Blu Ray the FMV is only going to get better too.

 

It's still priceless after you constantly extolling the virtues of the 360 , you had to fall back on killzone

[Epiphany]

Still none of them are equal to FMV so the only stupid one here is you I'm afraid. With more space on Blu Ray the FMV is only going to get better too.

 

It's still priceless after you constantly extolling the virtues of the 360 , you had to fall back on killzone 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didn't "fall back" on Killzone, I merely used it as yet ANOTHER example of next generation graphics, and how no FMV sequence has been created to surpass the visuals in that game, and the rest of list I gave in my previous post. Hell, you clowns just love to dance around, if I mention all X360 game, you scream fanboy, and ignorantly try to discredit everything that's said. If I mention games from both consoles, you claim I'm "falling back" on the PS3, and use that as your crutch to discredit what was said.

 

If I make a post slamming the PS3, you are all ready to pounce like children. If I make posts showing off cool aspects/demos of the PS3/cell, nobody responds. Makes me even more confident that you don't know what you're talking about, since, if you were the diehard PS3 fans that you display in all your PS3 defense, you'd post stuff in the "positive" threads.

 

Sounds like you need to get some of your own opinions, and leave the G4TV tech analysis at home, as it's no good here. Responding with "YOU ARE WRONG PS3 OWNS! IT IS BETTER!" isn't going to prove you know what you're talking about, especially when you can't carry on a conversation about your beloved console when the same person you love to whine and cry about posts something positive about it. You either know what you're talking about, and can talk about the good/bad of everything, or you don't know what you're talking about and you just need to stay quiet.

 

Make your choice.

[mkreku]

I love it when Epiphany tries the "you know nothing and G4TV is you and I am much smarter and I know everything there is to know and you don't know what you're talking about get a clue blah blah blah"..

 

It's funny because of all those other threads where Epiphany was proven wrong over and over and over.. )

 

Hey, Epiphany, here's something for you to wank over:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=8224610690

 

An Xbox360 signed by Bill Gates!!1!one

[Epiphany]

^ Another example

[kirottu]

It