Pledge! Now!

[Judge Hades]

The Bible itself is full of contradictions so if a divinely inspired works, scripture from the mouth of God itself, can't get it right there is something screwey with God in the first place.

[Dark Moth]

1.  Islam doesn't worship the same God as Judaism and Christianity.

 

Uhm... wrong. If you had actually read the Qur'an, as you claim, and studied Islam you would know that Islam's Allah is the same god as Judaism and Christianity.

 

It even acknowledges the prophets and important figures from Judaism and Christianity.

 

It also teaches radically different doctrines as well.  I have read the Qur'an, I have studied Islam and its history, I know what I'm talking about.  Islam was started by Muhammad who saw Christianity and Judaism as corrupt.  Islam in fact teaches that Judaism and Christianity are not true faiths.

 

Only halfway correct. I recommend you resume and/or continue your studies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. No. Islam claims it worships the same god as christianity, but the nature of that god is very different.

 

2. The Qur'an specifically states in its texts that Christianity and Judaism are corrupt faiths, and those who worship them are blasphemers. Also, one key difference between the Bible and the Qur'an is that Christianity recognizes that the Bible was written by human hands that were merely "divinely inspired". Islam teaches that the Qur'an is copied exactly as God wrote it in heaven.

[julianw]

The Bible itself is full of contradictions

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That's where we need to use our free will.

 

Mothman - Muhammad stated himself that Christ is a prophet of God. Muhammad recognizes Christianity as the religion of God, only that Islam is more advanced.

[Dark Moth]

Hades - Here's one line in the NT that you might be interested in: "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." It's the church that turned Christianity into a religion about faith. I am sure a Buddhist who lived a decent life is not going to get tortured if Christ is the judge.

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Jesus in fact gave himself up so that we would be saved from hell. He took the sin of the world upon himself and died for it. In other words, he sacrificed himself for us. In doing that, God could be both loving and just. That is also why Christianity doesn't sacrifice as Judaism once did - because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.

 

And in regard to Hades' post about contradictions: the bible was written by humans. much of it is a history, and humans can of course make mistakes when copying history. But I think you'll find that when it comes to faith and doctrines, it doesn't contradict itself.

[Lucius]

  Jesus in fact gave himself up so that we would be saved from hell.  He took the sin of the world upon himself and died for it.  In other words, he sacrificed himself for us.  In doing that, God could be both loving and just.  That is also why Christianity doesn't sacrifice as Judaism once did - because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. 

 

Well whip my back and nail my hands, that dude sure sounds sweet. Too bad so many people decided to screw up his legacy in the 1900ish years that followed.

[Judge Hades]

There is a catch which you are not sharing, Mothman, and that you have to worship Jesus which I will not do. No one and no god is worth my worship, plain and simple.

 

Also the god of Christianity is the same god of Judaism, therefore the God of Islam is the same God as Judaism. SAME BLOODY GOD! God is God, no more and no less.

[Shadowstrider]

1.  No.  Islam claims it worships the same god as christianity, but the nature of that god is very different. 

 

2.  The Qur'an specifically states in its texts that Christianity and Judaism are corrupt faiths, and those who worship them are blasphemers.  Also, one key difference between the Bible and the Qur'an is that Christianity recognizes that the Bible was written by human hands that were merely "divinely inspired".  Islam teaches that the Qur'an is copied exactly as God wrote it in heaven.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I recommend you resume and/or continue your studies.

[Dark Moth]

There is a catch which you are not sharing, Mothman, and that you have to worship Jesus which I will not do.  No one and no god is worth my worship, plain and simple.

 

Also the god of Christianity is the same god of Judaism, therefore the God of Islam is the same God as Judaism.  SAME BLOODY GOD!  God is God, no more and no less.

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*yawn* Well, actually, Jesus states that "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me." In other words, through his judgement and sacrifice do we get into heaven, not necessarily because we just worship him. Jesus also states that "whoever is not against us is for us"

 

And I'll say it again: No, not same bloody God. Islam's god is different from Judaism and Christianity. 2 important points here: Islam came after both of them, and while Islam claims it worships the same God as Judaism and Christianity, the nature of Islam's god is radically different. It's name is even different. Have you even studied Islam? More importantly, have you read the Qur'an? I have.

 

@Shadowstrider: No thanks, have done enough of that already.

[Judge Hades]

Um... Man, you are freaking ignorant. Allah is Arabic for God. Studied Islam? Sure you have.

[Shadowstrider]

I've probably read the Qur'an more times than you've read the bible.

[Dark Moth]

Um... Man, you are freaking ignorant.  Allah is Arabic for God.  Studied Islam?  Sure you have. 

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Allah is the name of the Islamic God, or course. But Christianity and Judaism have a different "official" name of God that is rarely used.

 

EDIT: called "Jehova", or officially "Yahweh"

[Judge Hades]

It is not a name. Allah is Arabic for the word "God."

 

Sheesh, you are thick.

[Musopticon?]

Um... Man, you are freaking ignorant.  Allah is Arabic for God.  Studied Islam?  Sure you have. 

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Christianity and Judaism have a different "official" name of God that is rarely used.

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Jahve elohim?

[Darth Launch]

Mothman - Muhammed stated himself that Christ is a prophet of God. Muhammed recognizes Christianity as the religion of God, only that Islam is more advanced.

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Not more advanced... more like an extension of Christianity and Judaism

 

No offence Mothie, but you seem to have misinterpreted or misunderstood what you've read about Islam

 

And yes, I've read the Qu'ran (the original ancient Arabic version, so as to not lose any of the context in a translation) and I have no idea why you believe the Islamic God is so radically different to the Jewish and Christian God... perhaps you'd like to explain that for us

 

DL

[Darkside]

Um... Man, you are freaking ignorant.  Allah is Arabic for God.  Studied Islam?  Sure you have. 

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Allah is the name of the Islamic God, or course. But Christianity and Judaism have a different "official" name of God that is rarely used.

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Santa Claus has been called Sana, St. Nick, Father Christmas, and hundreds of other names in different countries. But it always refers to the same St. Nick.

 

If you strip away the politics and look at the basic teachings of all three major religions, they're basically the same thing, with only a few variations. In fact, the only aspect of the religions that clash is whether or not Jesus was God's Son.

[Lucius]

I'd rather go with the old Norse gods, at least there was some fun in those.

[Musopticon?]

Well, allah was just one of the arabiv gods originally, so there's potential there.

[Reveilled]

I'd rather go with the old Norse gods, at least there was some fun in those.

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Meh. Their beer might be good, but they're all very violent drunks. The greek gods were quite a bit better, by comparison, since they were just bitchy and horny drunks. Of course, neither group invited Our Lady to the parties, and that is why she created mankind, so as to have some friends of her own to party the night away with. ^_^

[Lucius]

I'd rather go with the old Norse gods, at least there was some fun in those.

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Meh. Their beer might be good, but they're all very violent drunks. The greek gods were quite a bit better, by comparison, since they were just bitchy and horny drunks. Of course, neither group invited Our Lady to the parties, and that is why she created mankind, so as to have some friends of her own to party the night away with. ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got a point there, I guess. However the Vikings weren't shy, though, Valhalla was quite the party as well, mixed with a good portion of immortality (immorality? ") and eternal battles.

[Dark Moth]

Mothman - Muhammed stated himself that Christ is a prophet of God. Muhammed recognizes Christianity as the religion of God, only that Islam is more advanced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not more advanced... more like an extension of Christianity and Judaism

 

No offence Mothie, but you seem to have misinterpreted or misunderstood what you've read about Islam

 

And yes, I've read the Qu'ran (the original ancient Arabic version, so as to not lose any of the context in a translation) and I have no idea why you believe the Islamic God is so radically different to the Jewish and Christian God... perhaps you'd like to explain that for us

 

DL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First off, Islam reconizes Jesus as a prophet, just that he was not the son of God. Also, it does state in the Qur'an that Jew and Christians are heretics. It says in Sura 5: 75-76 that essentially those who say that Christ is the son of God (a pillar of Christian beliefs) are heretics. It also attacks the trinity as well, saying that those who believe Allah is one of three are blasphemers. christians don't believe God is 3 gods, merely that he manifests himself in three different ways. Whenever the Qur'an talks about "people of the book" it refers to Christians and Jews.

 

I shouldn't have said that Islam and Christianity's god are very different. I was ranting; forgive me. They are not entirely the same, however. Their differences are mostly small differences in personality, nature, etc. For example: they command different things. According to Islam, one must perform specific deeds such as praying 5 times a day toward Mecca, making a pilgrimage to Mecca, etc.

 

They aren't entirely different, but they aren't exactly the same either.

[Reveilled]

I'd rather go with the old Norse gods, at least there was some fun in those.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Meh. Their beer might be good, but they're all very violent drunks. The greek gods were quite a bit better, by comparison, since they were just bitchy and horny drunks. Of course, neither group invited Our Lady to the parties, and that is why she created mankind, so as to have some friends of her own to party the night away with. ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got a point there, I guess. However the Vikings weren't shy, though, Valhalla was quite the party as well, mixed with a good portion of immortality (immorality? ") and eternal battles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, but the battles are what turn me off to the idea. In Elysium, the party only stops for the orgies.

[Darth Launch]

First off, Islam reconizes Jesus as a prophet, just that he was not the son of God.  Also, it does state in the Qur'an that Jew and Christians are heretics.  It says in Sura 5: 75-76 that essentially those who say that Christ is the son of God (a pillar of Christian beliefs) are heretics.  It also attacks the trinity as well, saying that those who believe Allah is one of three are blasphemers.  christians don't believe God is 3 gods, merely that he manifests himself in three different ways.  Whenever the Qur'an talks about "people of the book" it refers to Christians and Jews.

 

I shouldn't have said that Islam and Christianity's god are very different.  They are not entirely the same, however.  Their differences are mostly small differences in personality, nature, etc.  For example: they command different things. According to Islam, one must perform specific deeds such as praying 5 times a day toward Mecca, making a pilgrimage to Mecca, etc. 

 

They aren't entirely different, but they aren't exactly the same either. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think your use of the word 'heretics' is a bit strong... but perhaps that's your interpretation of the text

 

And the Islamic God is the same... he's just worshipped in a different way

 

DL

[Lucius]

I'd rather go with the old Norse gods, at least there was some fun in those.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Meh. Their beer might be good, but they're all very violent drunks. The greek gods were quite a bit better, by comparison, since they were just bitchy and horny drunks. Of course, neither group invited Our Lady to the parties, and that is why she created mankind, so as to have some friends of her own to party the night away with. ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got a point there, I guess. However the Vikings weren't shy, though, Valhalla was quite the party as well, mixed with a good portion of immortality (immorality? ") and eternal battles.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, but the battles are what turn me off to the idea. In Elysium, the party only stops for the orgies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Orgies, really? I need to read more about this place, I think. :D

[Dark Moth]

First off, Islam reconizes Jesus as a prophet, just that he was not the son of God.  Also, it does state in the Qur'an that Jew and Christians are heretics.  It says in Sura 5: 75-76 that essentially those who say that Christ is the son of God (a pillar of Christian beliefs) are heretics.  It also attacks the trinity as well, saying that those who believe Allah is one of three are blasphemers.  christians don't believe God is 3 gods, merely that he manifests himself in three different ways.  Whenever the Qur'an talks about "people of the book" it refers to Christians and Jews.

 

I shouldn't have said that Islam and Christianity's god are very different.  They are not entirely the same, however.  Their differences are mostly small differences in personality, nature, etc.  For example: they command different things. According to Islam, one must perform specific deeds such as praying 5 times a day toward Mecca, making a pilgrimage to Mecca, etc. 

 

They aren't entirely different, but they aren't exactly the same either. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think your use of the word 'heretics' is a bit strong... but perhaps that's your interpretation of the text

 

And the Islamic God is the same... he's just worshipped in a different way

 

DL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Hopefully we can get back on-topic now that the flame-fest appears to have died down. :ph34r: Or just keep talking about Norse Gods.

[Judge Hades]

I still loathe God.