Define "Roleplaying Game"

[kumquatq3]

"I'm not even dignifying that"

 

You just did. Either way, my statement is very much factual. In fact, it is factually undisputable. A role-playing game - by definition - is a game in which you play a role.

 

Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Volourn, you were waiting for someone to disagree, wern't you

[Volourn]

"Volourn, you were waiting for someone to disagree, wern't you"

 

When it comes to posting on the 'net, that wait is never long. "

 

I could start a thread with any topic and take any side of that topic, and one galoot would auto disagree.

 

I could say my computer desk is green, and I'm sure someone would pop in and say it's blue. R00fles!

 

P.S. Now, that i pointed out, no one will disagree just to prove me wrong. LOL :D

[alanschu]

Where did you find your definition of role-playing game?

[kumquatq3]

Where did you find your definition of role-playing game?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It was to be written somewhere?

[alanschu]

Well, he said that a roleplaying game, by definition, is a game that lets you play a role.

 

 

I suspect his "definition" is just the words involved in the statement, which is hardly a definition at all.

[Cantousent]

Why have someone else give you a definition in the first place? The original poster asked that we define it for ourselves. I define it broadly based on long standing consensus.

[kumquatq3]

Well, he said that a roleplaying game, by definition, is a game that lets you play a role.

 

 

I suspect his "definition" is just the words involved in the statement, which is hardly a definition at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

His example was like "Baseball" or "Football". I think everyone would be surprised if either term was the word for deep sea diving.

[alanschu]

Why have someone else give you a definition in the first place?  The original poster asked that we define it for ourselves.  I define it broadly based on long standing consensus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The reason why I ask is because he comes in stating matter-of-factly that it's, "by definition," a game that lets the user play a role.

 

 

I just asked him where he found this defacto definition that lets him say "by definition."

 

 

His example was like "Baseball" or "Football". I think everyone would be surprised if either term was the word for deep sea diving.

 

Ironically, American Football is rarely played with the feet...

[kumquatq3]

Ironically, American Football is rarely played with the feet...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I said football in the soccer sense, I saw you were in Canada. I assume you guys don't say soccer.

[Cantousent]

Even so, we still play American football by foot, even if not primarily.

 

Yes, I think Vol's definition is particularly broad. I think it's broad for a purpose, and that purpose was fulfilled. Still, there's something to be said for Vol's definition. Perhaps more than he originally intended to be said.

 

In one way or another, an RPG must be related to playing a role. The specifics are the source of argument here.

[alanschu]

The problem with his definition is that it's all encompassing. What game do you not play as a role? Whether it be "chess player" or "The Nameless One?"

 

American Football may have parts of the game played by foot, but it's still a misleading name. A game of football could realistically be played by never kicking the ball outside of the opening kickoffs. It's usage for the Western Soccer makes more sense. I wonder how it came to get its name. And yes, us Canadians call it soccer

[roshan]

I believe that there is a difference between games where yoiui can PLAY a roile, and games where yoiui oinily HAVE a roile.

[Reveilled]

The problem with his definition is that it's all encompassing.  What game do you not play as a role?  Whether it be "chess player" or "The Nameless One?"

 

American Football may have parts of the game played by foot, but it's still a misleading name.  A game of football could realistically be played by never kicking the ball outside of the opening kickoffs.  It's usage for the Western Soccer makes more sense.  I wonder how it came to get its name.  And yes, us Canadians call it soccer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There's lots of games where you don't play a role, at least in real life. In games like Chess, or Backgammon, you're just yourself playing a game. When you play chess, you don't play the role of a Chess player, because you actually are a chess player, by virtue of playing chess. Unlike with, say, D&D where one would pretend to be a Wizard, rather than actually becoming one by virtue of playing the game.

 

A term like Role Playing Game, at least with respect to its pen and paper versions, simply distinguishes those games where we act out a role from those games where we are simply being ourselves playing a game we are trying to win.

 

The problem comes when we start including the other attributes of pen and paper role playing games, ones that have nothing to do with them actually being RPGs, and begin assigning them as the required attributes of a role playing game on the computer. The problem, of course is that using it's strict and literal definition, pretty much every computer game is a role playing game. Yet on the other hand, the definition of role playing game that many others advance has very little to do with playing a role.

 

I would contend that the broad definition is the correct one, and that computer games from Mario to Zelda to GTA3 are role playing games. I would contend that if a game being part of the genre of computer games that we call role playing games has very little to do with actually playing a role, and is instead to do with something else such as statistic based gameplay, then the genre is misnamed.

 

If a first person shooter revolves around shooting people from a first person view, and a turn based strategy revolves around enacting a strategy to win the game in a turn based environment, shouldn't a genre that is defined by stat-based gameplay be called statistic-based games?

 

The term "roleplaying game", in my opinion, is not a genre of games, nor should it be. It is an umbrella as wide as computer game or board game, far larger than that of a simple genre.

 

If the term roleplaying game is stretched so broad that it's a near tautology (at least in computer games, as the broad definition would still have use to distinguish real world games), and the genre defined by stat based gameplay is renamed something more precise (like Statistic based game, or Statistic Based Adventure), then discussion of what a roleplaying game is in computer games becomes unecessary, we can all smile and agree, we can stop arguing, and go have a nice cup of tea and some biscuits instead.

[Kaftan Barlast]

If we go by Sawyer's or Kaftan's definition then 20 years of classic RPGs suddenly aren't RPGs at all, while the entire litany of the classic Adventure genre suddenly becomes RPGs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The adventure game genre is certainly close to RPG, its an example of genres that melt together over time.

 

But I dont understand your argument that "classic" RPGs wouldnt be considered RPGs anymore. Unless your talking about the old DOS roguelikes, which were much more like adventure boardgames(like Heroquest or Talisman) than RPGs in the first place.

 

 

edit:

 

and the question of "playing a character or playing as yourself through an onscreen avatar in the gameworld" is a real classic one, we had two lectures about it last week. Let me get my notes and Ill get back to you on that.

[mkreku]

Ok, I've waited hours for your notes now. Get back here, you lazy bum!

[vaxen83]

My understanding of RPGs was that you had a character, that is a sole character in a game who starts with a role. (One character can have many roles, like having two or three classes). I thought that the difference between RPG games and strategy games was that in the latter, roles are usually fixed. Star Wars Battlefront looked like a strategy game to me, as the functions of each team were not necessarily specific nor flexible.

[Judge Hades]

Well, I went to Gamestop and listed all their "RPG" games they are selling. There were games I would never consider RPG. Downright sickening if you ask me. Oh well, the genre itself is long dead so why bother define something which the industry itself doesn't give a shat.

[alanschu]

Why should you care if the genre itself is long dead?

 

I mean, as long as there are fun games out there that are supported by their respective companies.

 

 

 

As for my "all-encompassing" statement, I was referring to computer games. And isn't "yourself" a role in and of itself? Why does a role have to be different from how you are?

[roshan]

Its a roile buit I doiint think yoiui woiiuild actuially be playing that roile.

[Judge Hades]

If you are playing yourself then its not a role. You are just playing as yourself.

[alanschu]

Ah, but then that's only taking a small part of the defintion of "role."

 

role    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (rl)

n.

also r

[Judge Hades]

There is more than just the definition of "role" in a role playing game.

[Cantousent]

Reveilled gave such a good explanation of my thoughts that I'll just voice my agreement with his statement.