Odysseus the embodiment of cunning...

[Calax]

I know what you mean.  The Iliad has a couple of thing that tend to drive away readers.  For one thing, a lot of students are disgusted by the graphic violence.  That's probably not a problem for you, since you're a fellow RPG/wargamer.  On the other hand, the work is so rife with violence it becomes monotonous.  To be honest, I would suggest the Odyssey or, since I'm being completely candid, The Aeneid.

 

Still, epics aren't for everyone.  I find epics fascinating, but they're certainly not engaging in the same way as, say, a novel.

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I couldn't really get into them...for two major reasons.

 

1. A good deal of the terms are somewhat obscure, and the way sentences are structured can get overly confusing some times...at least in the versions I've had available to me.

 

2. They seem, to me, to lack focus...often going on about something or other that doesn't really involve anything related to the plot itself. I'd like at least some point to be there...

 

Then again, maybe I'm reading into things too much, or just not enough.

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That sounds a heck of a lot like the Three Kingdoms books (also translated under the title of Romance of the Three Kingdoms), they spend more time on family history than they do on the actual three kingdoms...

[LoneWolf16]

You want to know the exact amount of sweat that builds under the bosom of a morbidly obese woman in an average summer day?

[Calax]

they don't have that level, for that I go to the Da Vinci Code, Three kingdoms, in the format I have anyway, has about 2333 pages, including notes afterword and forward... and about 6 other things.

[Shryke]

i like the Illiad

 

i still haven't found a copy of the Aenead or the Oddessy yet though...

[SteveThaiBinh]

I remember reading the Iliad and Odyssey many many years ago, though I don't remember enough about them to contribute much to this debate.

 

I do remember the epithets, though (though I didn't know they were called that at the time), and I remember assuming that they arose out of the process of translation from the original into English - sometimes when you have a word in the original with two meanings, both of which are important, there's no single expression in the target language to convey both and you either pick one or use two words (or even a short phrase) to express both meanings. My assumption was that they conveyed such important information that the translator was reluctant to leave anything out in an attempt to get a more idiomatic translation. I'm surprised that academics have suggested their meanings aren't that significant. I wish I had a copy to hand to look at again.

[Darth Drabek]

There are some sections of the Illiad that are quite boring, but if you step back and look at them with historical perspective, they make sense. Like the awful chapter where Homer simply recites the names of every family that sailed to Troy to fight. It makes for some dull reading, but think about it this way: During the first few generations of telling this story, that chapter could be the most important part to some people. The Greeks listening to the story were waiting to hear their ancestors called out as legends... and if you weren't related to Ajax (big or little), Odysseus, Patroclus, Diomedes, Achilles or Teucer, that chapter was pretty much your only shot at "glory."

 

Audience appeasement: always a big part of the oral tradition.

[Cantousent]

Epithets are the subject of heated and lively debate even now. For some scholars, it is a sin to suggest that epithets have any meaning at all other than versification. I feel I've sufficiently dealt with that view.

 

Yes, Drabek, you must keep in mind the target audience. They didn't expect, or even desire, someone who could come up with something new or novel. They wanted someone who could tell the story they expected to hear. It's unlikely that Homer's audience wanted him to be "original."

 

My favorite book in the Iliad is 18, the Shield of Achilles. It is a break from the fighting and it shows something of life outside of warfare.

[Atreides]

I don't understand this. Use indicator variables damn it!

[Cantousent]

I don't understand this.  Use indicator variables damn it! 

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What do you mean? I don't understand you! :D

[Calax]

Ohhhhh clash of the English and Math nerds!

[metadigital]

I think Atreides wants citations; references and such to specific quotations. Umless I miss his humour, of course ...

[Cantousent]

Oh, I'm sorry, the citations don't come across. However, I will provide what endnotes I have prepared so far. Remember, this is still a work in progress.

 

Iliad, book 3, lines 200-202.

Parry, Milman, The Making of Homeric Verse. (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1971), 21.

Parry, page 22.

Combellack, Frederick M.,