Jump to content

Odysseus the embodiment of cunning...


Gorth

Recommended Posts

You have just earned +200 TOMBS XP, and a spot in both rhetoric AND Artful Dodging!

 

:thumbsup:

Tsk tsk tsk... you know Eldar is a pointy eared, magic loving tree hugger ? :wub:

 

Btw. Eldar, whatever happened to your paper on Odysseus and Metis/Polymetis ?

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have high hopes for publishing that paper as an article eventually. I've taken a little break from academics for the summer, however. I still find Odysseus role as the embodiment of human metis fascinating. It's also, I believe, rather under represented by current scholarship. I don't know if I posted any of my previous paper, but I've decided to place the whole concept into a four tiered structure for the purposes of my argument. Just working on the use of epithets alone is a massive undertaking.

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not really interested in authorship so much as Odysseus himself. The whole debate concerning Homer doesn't hold much interest for me. I believe you're attending college up north, Calax. Had the chance to read either work yet for school? Great stuff!

 

Anyhow, we'd better stick to the topic at hand. It's really just that the whole discussion of mods seems to have dwindled and now we are just gabbing in a thread. I really don't mind, but we should respect pixies and not derail the thread any more than we already have.

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oddesey is Required for Highschool. Illiad is generally not read by any school up here from my experiance. I had a friend who read the Illiad but then she was studying Greek down in New Mexico so...

 

From what she say's there are some passages that make insinuations about Patriclus and Achillies, in the tent...

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Homosexuality was not so much of a taboo around the time that was written, so it's entirely possible.

 

EDIT: Who has been playing around with my post? :thumbsup:

 

ELDAR EDIT: Wasn't me. Well, now it was. hahaha language, Mr. numbers.

Edited by Eldar

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When Priam, standing at the high walls of Troy, asks Helen to tell him of the Achaean man he sees off in the distance, she responds

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, that's just the beginning, but I didn't want to post something as huge as the whole thing. That's about 24 pages worth of work, and it would be a pain to read. Should we have a good discussion going about this, then I'll post more or excerpts from the larger work. Hopefully, we have some folks interested in Homer. (...And I don't just mean Simpson.)

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was Oddysseus actually in the Illiad? I thought that the Illiad was primailry based around Achillies and his personal war. I thought Odysseus was purely in the Odyssey, After all there's no actual mention of the Trojan horse in the Illiad. or any of the initial stuff in the Odyssey...

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please take this discussion to another topic. ...Or you can even derail my Odysseus thread. I don't care. The thing is, I can't continue this interesting discussion in pixies thread. Move it elsewhere before I'm forced to delete my own posts.

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Odysseus plays a rather important role in the Iliad. In fact, I write extensively concerning the Iliad since it provides a foundation for Odysseus' starring role in the Odyssey.

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't studied the Homeric works, either in English or the orignal Greek (or even in Latin), so I would be restricted to commenting on what is posted. :">

 

But if you can point me in the direction of a good analysis (I think I can pick up a Penguin Classics English version of both from the local bookstore) then I'd be glad to read it.

OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS

ingsoc.gif

OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You really should read both works. I think Lattimore's translation is probably the best at the moment for the language, but Fagles' probably captures the poetry of the work better.

 

Ummm, the ISBN numbers

 

Lattimore: 0-06-093195-7

 

Fagles: 0-14-026886-3

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excerpts please ? Now it gets interesting :-

 

For us non scholars, it's a bit hard to argue whether or not Millman is an authority or not :">

 

We'll take you word for it (for now) :(

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Homosexuality was not so much of a taboo around the time that was written, so it's entirely possible.

 

EDIT: Who has been playing around with my post? :(

 

ELDAR EDIT:  Wasn't me.  Well, now it was.  hahaha  language, Mr. numbers.

It wasn't a taboo at all.

 

Ten bucks goes to whoever tells me when it became a taboo.

Bible. Sodom and Gomorrah.

OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS

ingsoc.gif

OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You really should read both works.  I think Lattimore's translation is probably the best at the moment for the language, but Fagles' probably captures the poetry of the work better.

 

Ummm,  the ISBN numbers

 

Lattimore:  0-06-093195-7

 

Fagles:  0-14-026886-3

Excellent, thanks. I'll look them up. (Probably won't be through reading it until after you've published your next paper, though. ;))

 

Edit:

Certainly seems that Lattimore is highly regarded.

 

Here is the first review of Fagles:

 

Since you ask me, you word-hungry Amazonians,

How I came solate in life to the end of a tale

That schoolchildren read in comic books,

A tale that is one of the sturdy legs

Of the table on which our culture rests

Since you ask, I will tell you, and gladly, too.

 

My journey started, though you grin in disbelief,

In ninth-grade Latin class, where "Ulysses"

Duped the cyclops by calling himself "Nemo."

Then a deep sleep fell over me,

And I knew no more Homer, not in Greek or Latin

Or English or even the strange tongue

Of the network miniseries, while Sun

Drove his blazing chariot round Earth

One hundred hundred times.

 

In this sleep I wandered the world of letters,

Homerless but unable to avoid the homeric:

Achilles' heel, the Sirens' song,

Calypso, the Trojan Horse, and swinemaking Circe--

Crouched like Scylla, aswirl like Charybdis,

Threatening cultural death to epic ignorance.

 

At last I found my literary Tiresias,

The New York Times Book Review.

I shook from this seer the name Fagles,

And so guided, I made my way home at last,

Through a translation that rings of a heroic time,

A time when men were stronger and grander than we,

When women were more beautiful,

And when, granted, sexual equality wanted

A few millennia's labor;

But even so, a rendering as modern

As anything DeLillo, new god of the underworld,

Or the infinitely jesting Wallace

Can lay before us.

 

The best, in fine, of both worlds, an epic worthy

Of the blind bard and of his heroes, his heroines,

And the deathless denizens of Olympus.

8)

OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS

ingsoc.gif

OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What exactly is this paper about? The treatment given to Odysseus in the Odyssey and the Iliad? Odysseus as a possible historical figure? The literary aspects and rhetoric resources of both works and how Odysseus' figure is affected by those?

 

I'm confused now. 8)

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It wasn't a taboo at all.

Err... yeah. That's what I meant.

 

"Homosexuality was not so much of a taboo around the time that was written [as it is today?], so it's entirely possible."

 

Better now?

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This particular section, dealing with epithets, argues that Homer's Odysseus is the embodiment of human Metis. It argues that Homer conveys the breadth of Odyseus' briliance partly by use of epithet. Then, the paper goes to great lengths to argue that, while epithets usually don't have much meaning in terms of actual action, they are significant in regards to innate characteristics.

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Blowing up a city because it was no longer "rightous"? I never even saw a mention of Man-on-man love in the Bible... Besides if everyone died except Lot and his daughters, wouldn't that be condoning Incest? same with Noah...

Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition!

 

Kevin Butler will awesome your face off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...