metadigital Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 ...His commentary about wanting an audience with an indie aesthetic disturbs me, because that's the easy answer, and it will happen - I mean, PC gamers are already half there, as steeped in abandonware or just plain old software as we are. Conciously going back through the catalog to cherry pick the "great" (but now visually archaic) games is just a short stroll away from an indie aesthetic. In a few more years the mainstream industry will be revolting enough that we'll actually start paying full price for games that don't hold us in contempt. But I don't want that to be the solution, because I don't want the repulsive superiority/inferiority complex that has come with indieism in movies and music, and I want for great game creators to make disgusting amounts of money. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree that we already have an indie aesthetic (if possibly immature). I think it is entirely possible that some publishers will go out on a limb and spend some VC on weird and wonderful "different" games, after all they have little to lose (if they limit the budget and therefore the inherent risk; after all they are terminating games after going gold on development, now) and everything to gain: IP ownership, !A NEW FRANCHISE!, !A NEW GENRE!, and a captive revenue stream. What would you suggest as a solution? OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fishboot Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 What would you suggest as a solution? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Partially my "not just indieism" statement is calling for other ideas, rather than me trying to advance my own (and not incidentally because I don't have them). However, as you and I have previously intimated, there may be a way to change the distribution model which would cause an industry earthquake, with Steam being the beachhead. If the publisher-delivery-retail hegemony were broken there would be a chance to remake the industry anew with very few bottlenecks for command economics to exploit to gain domain, and who knows how we consumers would react, how we would reform our little cultures to accept or deny a given aesthetic. In a way I guess hoping for new distribution methods to scour all of the evil from the Earth has the romanticism of an armageddon scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 So you are advocating the Fallout scenario ... OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargallath Abraxium Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 ~ hits the "Sargy Off" button for the moment ~ The real sad part of all this is that "glitz over content" is deeply ingrained into Society today...people want "the quick distraction", the "easy escape" from the realities of Life today and "eye candy" provides that...people don't want to think when they don't have to, because games are supposed to be an escape from the pressures of reality, time off from the battlefield that is daily living in times such as we live in now...Society won't change; it's taken thousands of years for humanity to build up such a resistance to mental stimulation while "at rest"...Planescape: Torment is a perfect example of this; "quasi-deep, true to Life emotions in a video game...please; I do enough of that in my daily existence to actually want to do it while I'm actually trying to enjoy a few moments of down time"...most people play games to escape from the moral questions and dilemna of life, and don't want them popping up in their leisure time (which is getting to be a lesser and lesser amount of time as Human Society "grows")...visual stimulation has become the "calling card" of leisure time; any type of mental and emotional stimulation is for the daily grind of Life...more's the pity... ~ unfortunately hits the "Sargy On" button ~ ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... A long, long time ago, but I can still remember, How the Trolling used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance", And maybe we'd be happy for a while. But then Krackhead left and so did Klown; Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town. Bad news on the Front Page, BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage. I can't remember if I cried When I heard that TORN was recently fried, But sadness touched me deep inside, The day...Black Isle died. For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I'm not sure if I agree it is such an intractable problem (the thinking demands of a leisure activity, like RPG playing). Sure, there is an element of that. I am just as guilty as everyone else for wanting some mindless fun sometimes. Equally, though, I think it is quite reasonable to want some alternative reality thinking, where my decisions do not drastically effect my personal well-being in the most intimate way; but instead I can reload and replay if I don't like a particular experiment. After all, a change is as good as a holiday; I can quite happily change the particular task I am focussed on at work to allow myself to recharge my mental batteries to the first task. I do it all the time. So it isn't much of a stretch to have some demanding leisure persuits (adrenalin sports, anyone?) to provide a different sort of personal challenge that will aid in quicker and superior recreation. Well, that's the theory, anyway ... OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Good stories were told in the Infocom games without art. One does not require visuals to tell a story, but good visuals can be a tool to assist in telling a story. Everyone talks about style over substance, but one does not proclude the other. We could have a visually stunning game with a good storyline. Final Fantasy X is probably a good example of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Everyone talks about style over substance, but one does not proclude the other. We could have a visually stunning game with a good storyline. I agree Final Fantasy X is probably a good example of that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wait, hello, contradiction, aisle 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargallath Abraxium Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Everyone talks about style over substance, but one does not proclude the other. We could have a visually stunning game with a good storyline. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...yes, we can; problem be that theys very few an' far between...more's the pity... Final Fantasy X is probably a good example of that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...no offence ta the FF fans an' such, but I dunna consider any game wit' a "bubble gum" storyline ta equal a a game wit' great "substance", no matter how good the bubble gum storyline...personal opinion, I knows, but methinks it rings some truth ta it... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... A long, long time ago, but I can still remember, How the Trolling used to make me smile. And I knew if I had my chance, I could egg on a few Trolls to "dance", And maybe we'd be happy for a while. But then Krackhead left and so did Klown; Volo and Turnip were banned, Mystake got run out o' town. Bad news on the Front Page, BIOweenia said goodbye in a heated rage. I can't remember if I cried When I heard that TORN was recently fried, But sadness touched me deep inside, The day...Black Isle died. For tarna, Visc, an' the rest o' the ol' Islanders that fell along the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I don't want to spoil the story and mention moments that personally got ot me, but it was a unique cast of characters in a unique setting with a fairly unique story. I didn't care for Tidus too much as the protagonist, but I'd argue that Luke Skywalker and Neo are equally weak protagonists and yet don't hold back Star Wars and the Matrix respectively. With FFX, you have personal stories with Tidus and his father, as well as dynamics between Wakka and his dead brother, Tidus and Yuna, etc. Given that 95% of the RPGs I play fall on the same tired cliches, I think FFX of a good looking game with a good story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The only thing cool about FFX was Auron :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Rikku kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Rikku <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Aint she about 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 This is what I was reading in the other window when I saw that comment. http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1638&u_sid=2003707 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Here is a good example of content over packaging. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakron Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Well with due respect FF X suffered from translation issues, I think a lot of hidden meaning was butched by the translation or its was simply not "got it" by the players (like the word Aeon). Of course we had FF X-2 that was just fan service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I didn't play FF X-2 nor do I intend to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I didn't play FF X-2 nor do I intend to. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You should :D It is an awesome game :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Isn't that the MMORPG ? OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderAndrew Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 FFX-2 is the sequel to FFX. FFXI is the MMORPG and FFXII is the next single player FF coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 I played one of its ancestors on the PS2 (PS?), I remember getting right into it, then I sorta got stuck somewhere with the entire map open to explore, and I sorta did something out of order (if that is even possible) and it didn't let me, or something. Anyway, after palying it for about three weeks straight, I never touched it again. And if I never see a chokobo again, it will be too soon. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 "ye spent almost an entire post arguin' direct points that I's brought up, but becuz ya didna "quote" me, ya wasna respondin' ta me post???..." and 'bout 10 other people were saying the same things as you... all the nonsense 'bout ps:t not being a complete failure is hardly soggie's personal banner of futility. the thing is that your individual posts tends to lack any noticeable merit or rationality, so we respond to the other folks... right up until you actually asked to get a personal beating. happy now? "commercial failure, on any level, doesna necessarily equal "total failure"..." "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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