Gaza Strip

[Reveilled]

Are you aware, Ender, that millions of people in the United Kingdom find calling their country England offensive?

[EnderAndrew]

Are you aware, Ender, that millions of people in the United Kingdom find calling their country England offensive?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, no. I've never once heard that. And I have family in England, who refer to it as such. My father in law was born in England. My favorite English author calls the country England. I've heard bands call it England. I've heard the BBC call it England.

 

In fact, the Queen of England isn't called the Queen of the UK, but rather the Queen of England. Blair is referred to as the Prime Minister of England.

 

So surely, the English must hate their country being called England.

[LoneWolf16]

Are you aware, Ender, that millions of people in the United Kingdom find calling their country England offensive?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, no. I've never once heard that. And I have family in England, who refer to it as such. My father in law was born in England. My favorite English author calls the country England. I've heard bands call it England. I've heard the BBC call it England.

 

In fact, the Queen of England isn't called the Queen of the UK, but rather the Queen of England. Blair is referred to as the Prime Minister of England.

 

So surely, the English must hate their country being called England.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Belligerent much?

[Reveilled]

Are you aware, Ender, that millions of people in the United Kingdom find calling their country England offensive?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, no. I've never once heard that. And I have family in England, who refer to it as such. My father in law was born in England. My favorite English author calls the country England. I've heard bands call it England. I've heard the BBC call it England.

 

Your father is wrong, your favourite author is wrong, the bands are wrong, and so is the BBC.

 

In fact, the Queen of England isn't called the Queen of the UK, but rather the Queen of England.  Blair is referred to as the Prime Minister of England.

 

This is flat out wrong. There has been no Queen of England since 1707, when the Kingdoms of England and Scotland were merged into a single Kingdom of Great Britain. And Blair is referred to as the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. Other names are wrong.

 

So surely, the English must hate their country being called England.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, I'm sure the English don't mind. But the Scots, the Welsh, and the Irish (in Northern Ireland) do.

[Lucius]

Are you aware, Ender, that millions of people in the United Kingdom find calling their country England offensive?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, no. I've never once heard that. And I have family in England, who refer to it as such. My father in law was born in England. My favorite English author calls the country England. I've heard bands call it England. I've heard the BBC call it England.

 

In fact, the Queen of England isn't called the Queen of the UK, but rather the Queen of England. Blair is referred to as the Prime Minister of England.

 

So surely, the English must hate their country being called England.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Belligerent much?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

- Only a little

[EnderAndrew]

Oh, I'm sure the English don't mind.  But the Scots, the Welsh, and the Irish (in Northern Ireland) do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Given that my family is from England, and I have family from Ireland, and that my friends are from Scotland, I hear them refer to England as England, Ireland as Ireland, Scotland and Scotland and the UK as being the UK.

 

You act as if the UK is alone in effectively having multiple states. Do people in Alberta get offended that people in Manitoba are called Manitobans simply because both are Canadian?

 

I didn't say that people in Ireland live in England. I understand the distinction. So I'm not offending them by calling them English, or saying Ireland is a part of England.

 

In fact, I am reluctant to bring up how Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Palestine didn't own or control the Gaza Strip.  Egypt did, so why is it being given to Palestine?

Because the people who live there are Palestinians. Had the wars never happened, the Gaza Strip been part of the state of Egypt, and the Palestinians there campaigned for their independence, I would have supported that, too. It's called self-determination.

Your insistance to cling to facts that simply aren't true baffles me.

Your refusal to acknowledge that the Palestinians should have the same basic rights and freedoms that you have baffles me.

[EnderAndrew]

Palestine didn't own or control the Gaza Strip.  Egypt did, so why is it being given to Palestine?

Because the people who live there are Palestinians. Had the wars never happened, the Gaza Strip been part of the state of Egypt, and the Palestinians there campaigned for their independence, I would have supported that, too. It's called self-determination.

Your insistance to cling to facts that simply aren't true baffles me.

Your refusal to acknowledge that the Palestinians should have the same basic rights and freedoms that you have baffles me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In that case, Texas should become its own country since people there wanted independence, and it should no longer belong to the US because we gained it via war.

 

I'm inform the President right away.

 

You still lack any logical arguement. Part of Israel, that has been part of Israel for 50 years should become part of a third party because it once belonged to a 2nd party?

 

I think most of the UK should be handed over to a third party since England never had the right to go Imperial. Yeah, that makes sense.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Given that my family is from England, and I have family from Ireland, and that my friends are from Scotland, I hear them refer to England as England, Ireland as Ireland, Scotland and Scotland and the UK as being the UK.

It's important to refer to the UK when you're speaking about the UK. Try to avoid talking about England's foreign policy or the English government, for example, because England has neither.

You act as if the UK is alone in effectively having multiple states.  Do people in Alberta get offended that people in Manitoba are called Manitobans simply because both are Canadian?

Referring to the whole UK as 'England' is the same as referring to the whole US as 'California', or to everyone from North America as 'American'. Every Canadian I know dislikes being called 'American'.

[EnderAndrew]

I said:

England is dealing with the same issues right now, and most any wealthy nation with poorer nation deals with the same issues.

And I stand by that statement. I wasn't talking about the entire UK. Are people rushing to move to Northern Ireland because of the wealth there?

 

Is Northern Ireland cracking down on immigration? No.

 

Is England dealing with immigration concerns? Yes. Is England having an abundance of immigrants due to their wealth? Yes.

[Reveilled]

Oh, I'm sure the English don't mind.  But the Scots, the Welsh, and the Irish (in Northern Ireland) do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Given that my family is from England, and I have family from Ireland, and that my friends are from Scotland, I hear them refer to England as England, Ireland as Ireland, Scotland and Scotland and the UK as being the UK.

 

You act as if the UK is alone in effectively having multiple states. Do people in Alberta get offended that people in Manitoba are called Manitobans simply because both are Canadian?

 

I didn't say that people in Ireland live in England. I understand the distinction. So I'm not offending them by calling them English, or saying Ireland is a part of England.

 

In fact, I am reluctant to bring up how Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's not like Albertans getting offended that people in Manitoba are called Manitobans, it's like Albertans getting offended that Canada is being called Manitoba.

 

Which is what you are doing. England does not conduct international relations. It is not a member of the UN. It does not have its own Prime Minister, President, or Monarch. Its independence is not recognised by any government on the planet.

 

You don't refer to the US as Texas, so when you put terms like "the US" and England side by side in a sentence about international diplomacy, the clear inference is that England is a sovereign nation capable of conducting international relations. Which it isn't, any more than Texas, or Manitoba.

[Laozi]

Well being from Texas it went alittle more like this: A bunch of people moved to Texas while it belonged to Mexico.Then those people decide that they no longer wanted to be apart of Mexico, and declard their independence. Mexico didn't like that and their leader came to Texas with an army, throuigh many trials and tribulations the Texas where able to defeat the Mexican army and make them sign a paper giving us our independence. Later because we where doing a pretty bad job setting up a strong government Sam Houston finally convinced enough of us to join the U.S., the rest being as they say history.

 

I don't really recall anything remotely like that happening in Gaza

[EnderAndrew]

See above.

[Reveilled]

I said:

England is dealing with the same issues right now, and most any wealthy nation with poorer nation deals with the same issues.

And I stand by that statement. I wasn't talking about the entire UK. Are people rushing to move to Northern Ireland because of the wealth there?

 

Is Northern Ireland cracking down on immigration? No.

 

Is England dealing with immigration concerns? Yes. Is England having an abundance of immigrants due to their wealth? Yes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The British parliament is dealing with immigration Concerns, not England. Yes, England is having an abundance of immigrants due to their wealth, but this is adressed by the parliament of the United Kingdom.

[SteveThaiBinh]

In that case, Texas should become its own country since people there wanted independence, and it should no longer belong to the US because we gained it via war.

Do they want independence now? Then they should get it. Have a plebiscite and test public opinion. Self-determination, Ender.

Part of Israel, that has been part of Israel for 50 years should become part of a third party Palestinian State because it once belonged to a 2nd party the people there want it to.

It's not really that difficult to follow, I think. Self-determination. But just to make sure...

I think most of the UK should be handed over to a third party since England never had the right to go Imperial.  Yeah, that makes sense.

The colonised Empire has already become independent, because that was the wish of the people there. The UK is an independent state because that is the wish of the British people. Northern Ireland is part of the UK because that is the wish of (the majority of) the people there. The new settlement for Northern Ireland actually spells out the mechanism by which that could change - if the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted in a referendum to join the Republic of Ireland, that would happen. Self-determination.

[EnderAndrew]

The British parliament is dealing with immigration Concerns, not England.  Yes, England is having an abundance of immigrants due to their wealth, but this is adressed by the parliament of the United Kingdom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Parliament hasn't really done much of anything on the issue yet, though all parties seem to talk about it being an important issue.

 

However, England specifically is feeling the repercussions of immigration concerns within England.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Is Northern Ireland cracking down on immigration?  No.

Link

[Reveilled]

The British parliament is dealing with immigration Concerns, not England.  Yes, England is having an abundance of immigrants due to their wealth, but this is adressed by the parliament of the United Kingdom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Parliament hasn't really done much of anything on the issue yet, though all parties seem to talk about it being an important issue.

 

However, England specifically is feeling the repercussions of immigration concerns within England.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And that's one thing. Yes, this usage of the the term is correct.

 

Quite another to say:

Maybe that hostility of throwing Palestinians out of their homes was a reaction to:

 

A - Jews being slaughtered in that area already.

B - Palestine openly saying they would refuse to comply with England or the UN.

 

People forget that England technically had sovereign control over the area at the time.

 

When was this time? Before 1707?

 

The UN, US and England as third parties are intervening in the situation. They are judging right and wrong here. They are telling Israel to make concessions to terrorists and not holding Palestine accountable.

 

How is England, as opposed to the UK intervening in the situation? Pretty difficult when it's not a member of the UN, a recognised independent state, doesn't have its own army or even it's own (as in, one purely for the nation of England) legislature.

 

Sharon, the Prime Minister of Isreal made this decision, pressured by the US and England.

 

Which official for the naiton of England did the pressuring?

[EnderAndrew]

Is Northern Ireland cracking down on immigration?  No.

Link

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One case sure reflects a national epidemic.

[SteveThaiBinh]

One case sure reflects a national epidemic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Immigrants are not a disease, and referring to them as an epidemic is not polite or constructive.

 

Northern Ireland is experiencing a great deal of immigration at the moment, largely from the new member states of the European Union. I think this is very welcome, because it meets existing skills shortages as well as increasing the diversity of society.

[alanschu]

ISRAEL DIDN"T STEAL THE GAZA STRIP FROM PALESTINE!

 

Israel is not returning the Gaza Strip to Egypt. These are two wrongs and this really has nothing to do with how Israel got the Gaza Strip.

 

That's flat out a bull-**** excuse and unrelated

 

It doesn't sound like it's unrelated. It sounds like the people that lived in the Gaza Strip before they were tossed out by the Israelis want to be a part of the Palestine.

 

Things change over the course of 50 years or so.

 

 

Is Egypt making claims on it?

[Laozi]

Is Northern Ireland cracking down on immigration?  No.

Link

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One case sure reflects a national epidemic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ya its pretty ironic that you would dare utter the words anti-semitic to anyone. It seems pretty easy to see you're dead set against a group of people.

[EnderAndrew]

Is Egypt making claims on it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, so why should Israel be forced to give up land on the arguement is that the claim of land to take if from Egypt wasn't valid. If that's the case, then give it to Egypt.

 

So, if the majority of a group of people in an area want to have the minority forcibly displaced, this is cool?

 

Tell that to Native Americans.

 

Tell that to the Kurds in Iraq.

[kirottu]

Many statements made in this thread makes me cringe but as I am a gentleman, I shall remain civilised :D

 

The evacuation of the sttlers from the west bank is the most significant real step towards peace in the region that has been taken in a long time. It will put an end to many of the smaller conflicts between Palestinians and Israeli settler backed my military, that has been acting as a fuel for the overall conflict.

 

That this would increase terrorism is just prepostrous. If anything, it will remove the recruitment bases for the extremist organisations. They rely largely on recruiting deperate and angry people who have nothing left to loose, and if these people are instead given a chance to live a proper life without violence or opression, they wont join.

 

There are only two ways to accomplish peace and that is by either completely eradicating the other side, or by coming to a peaceful agreement with them. You cannot end terrorism with force, unless you are prepared to do some truly monstrous acts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with Kafty.

 

And since I only read 13 pages I don

[SteveThaiBinh]

So, if the majority of a group of people in an area want to have the minority forcibly displaced, this is cool?

 

Tell that to Native Americans.

 

Tell that to the Kurds in Iraq.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, it is not 'cool', it's making the best of a bad situation.

 

Many settlements were built on land that legally belongs to someone else, Palestinians, except that Israel didn't recognise the validity of their ownership. Surely you can't object to the eviction of squatters? I'm not sure if this applies to any or all of the Gaza settlements, however.

 

As for the rest of the settlers, it would be better if they had the option to remain in their homes, as citizens of a new Palestinian State or perhaps with dual nationality. But that's impossible, and the settlers have brought this upon themselves by their conduct. They, and the Israeli Army, have treated the Palestinians appallingly. They have made few if any efforts to get along with their neighbours, and made their lives as difficult as possible in a calculated attempt to force them away and forge a Greater Israel. They have been the most vociferous opponents of Palestinian self-determination and economic development.

 

If the settlers stay and are murdered by Palestinian terrorists I will condemn it as an outrage, but I would rather not have to do that. Ultimately I suspect many settlers are not grieving for the loss of their homes but for the loss of their dream of a Greater Israel, and for that I feel no sympathy with them whatsoever.