Declaration of Revocation

[julianw]

What happened when Russia became a superpower?

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There aren't wannabe black rappers in Soviet, are there?

Seriously, China is trying to copy the West so much, they are losing their own identity. The democratic ideas will eventually get there in this age of Internet, so be patient. China is not going to be a carbon copy of the USSR.

[Gromnir]

you know, it is gonna be kinda fun to watch how things change over the next 25-50 years.  one wonders how euro envy of america's world power status will change as china slowly begins to dominate the globe economically and culturally. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

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What happened when Russia became a superpower?

 

besides that scenario, while possible, isn't NEARLY as probable as the scared masses seem to believe.

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russia were never a real super power. russia/ussr was a military super power that were doomed from start. china situation is different.... much different.

 

btw, the observation 'bout chinese rappers is noteworthy in the present discussion 'cause back in the 80s Gromnir were sure that rap were just a fad.... shows what we know.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[kumquatq3]

Cryptic.

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nah

[kumquatq3]

What happened when Russia became a superpower?

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There aren't wannabe black rappers in Soviet, are there?

Seriously, China is trying to copy the West so much, they are losing their own identity. The democratic ideas will eventually get there in this age of Internet, so be patient. China is not going to be a carbon copy of the USSR.

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I'm not saying they will be.

 

My response was in reference of Groms question about what will Europe do when China rises in power. My thought: Align themselves closer with the US and vice versa.

[alanschu]

Goody.

 

Cold War part 2?

[kumquatq3]

Goody.

 

Cold War part 2?

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Isn't it kinda already. I mean, Taiwan and what not? Them building nukes, us trying to build new tactical nukes.

 

What I want to see is what part American corporations wnd up playing in all this. Not from a "corporations are evil" perspective, but just because they seem to play a very interesting role in all of this. They help support Chinese expansion in many regards while spreading american ideas.

[Gromnir]

"What I want to see is what part American corporations wnd up playing in all this. Not from a "corporations are evil" perspective, but just because they seem to play a very interesting role in all of this. They help support Chinese expansion in many regards while spreading american ideas."

 

you is being foolish if you think it is just american corps. the euros is falling all over themselves to get access to chinese markets.

 

cold war 2? not a chance.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[alanschu]

I was just thinking of the silly notion that the EU will align itself more with the US in face of the Chinese "threat."

[julianw]

I was just thinking of the silly notion that the EU will align itself more with the US in face of the Chinese "threat."

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Not France at least.

[SteveThaiBinh]

What I want to see is what part American corporations wnd up playing in all this. Not from a "corporations are evil" perspective, but just because they seem to play a very interesting role in all of this. They help support Chinese expansion in many regards while spreading american ideas.

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It's possible that 'American' corporations will cease to be American. At the moment, these multinational corporations benefit from being headquartered in the most powerful country in the world, because its government will protect their interests. However, if they want to expand their business in China and Chinese-US tensions are high, they will simply move their HQs elsewhere in the world. It will be an era of truly transnational corporations, without any loyalty to any country.

[kumquatq3]

you is being foolish if you think it is just american corps.  the euros is falling all over themselves to get access to chinese markets.

 

ok, well, duh.

 

So are lots of various investors. Not all of them nessasarily bringing "American" values or having to answer to the American people. Like when Microsoft (I think it was MS) help the Chinese gov censor words like "freedom" on the internet.

 

My point wasn't that US companies are solely driving the chinese market, but that US companies have a unique role to play in this.

 

cold war 2? not a chance.

 

as I said, we're already there. Edit: to a degree

 

I was just thinking of the silly notion that the EU will align itself more with the US in face of the Chinese "threat."

 

Want to venture a guess who is number one in human rights violations and in the bottom five of press freedoms?

 

I'm guessing China doesn't get "nicer" when it gets more powerful. Without, of course, some serious reforms. Those reforms would, of course, very likely hurt the chinese economy badly for some time to come.

 

 

It's possible that 'American' corporations will cease to be American

 

 

As I said, interesting, isn't it?

[julianw]

Like when Microsoft (I think it was MS) help the Chinese gov censor words like "freedom" on the internet.

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Is that an urban myth or based on evidence?

[SteveThaiBinh]

Is that an urban myth or based on evidence?

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4088702.stm

 

Multinational companies adapt their morality to the local context. There was a big fuss in Germany a while ago when it was discovered that one of their companies, which was required by German law to involve union representatives in the company structure in Germany, was blocking unionisation of its workforce in the US.

[alanschu]

I'm guessing China doesn't get "nicer" when it gets more powerful. Without, of course, some serious reforms. Those reforms would, of course, very likely hurt the chinese economy badly for some time to come.

 

I'm guessing China isn't completely stupid and understands how a good chunk of its recent development came to be.

[kumquatq3]

Like when Microsoft (I think it was MS) help the Chinese gov censor words like "freedom" on the internet.

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Is that an urban myth or based on evidence?

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http://wired.com/news/20050620_chinablogs....tw=wn_tophead_1

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/13/ms_ban_freedom/

 

real

[julianw]

Is that an urban myth or based on evidence?

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4088702.stm

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Thanks, Steve!

That's certainly a big step backwards for the Chinese government who vows to reform.

[Kaftan Barlast]

The reason why countries like China, India etc. have prospered economicly in the recent years is solely because they offer western companies cheaper means of production, mostly through cheap labour. Once the standards and wages of their societies rise to the point when it is no longer profitable for foreign companies to outsource to these countries, they will move elsewhere. And the economy of the country will decline very rapidly.

[julianw]

I'm guessing China doesn't get "nicer" when it gets more powerful. Without, of course, some serious reforms. Those reforms would, of course, very likely hurt the chinese economy badly for some time to come.

 

I'm guessing China isn't completely stupid and understands how a good chunk of its recent development came to be.

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Freedom in economy doesn't equal to democracy.

And I agree with kumquatq3 that political instability will hurt the economy badly, and that's why the Chinese government is reluctant to take radical measures in reforming. That and the fear of losing power of course.

[alanschu]

I never said freedom in economy means democracy.

[kumquatq3]

I never said freedom in economy means democracy.

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o no?

 

freedom in economy means democracy.

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:ph34r:

[julianw]

I never said freedom in economy means democracy.

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I know. I am just saying that reforms in politics directly affect economy.

[alanschu]

Still not sure what you're trying to say.

 

I know reforms can cause turmoil.

 

 

My statement was directed at the fact that China isn't going to get "nicer" as it gets more powerful.

 

With or without reforms, China's likely not stupid enough to just go on a powerhungry conquering spree if they're halfwits enough about why their economy is developing rapidly.

[kumquatq3]

With or without reforms, China's likely not stupid enough to just go on a powerhungry conquering spree if they're halfwits enough about why their economy is developing rapidly.

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One word: Taiwan

[alanschu]

Taiwan makes sense however, given history.

 

 

I don't see them bullying the Koreas, Japan, Vietnam, Mongolia, or any other of their neighbours for that matter.

[kumquatq3]

Taiwan makes sense however, given history.

 

 

I don't see them bullying the Koreas, Japan, Vietnam, Mongolia, or any other of their neighbours for that matter.

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Still, Taiwan is a very close US ally. Nice way to start some "$hit"

 

You couldn't see them bullying Japan? They reallllllllllllllllly don't like the Japanese. Vice Versa.

 

I agree they arn't going to be trying to take over the asia-pacific rim anytime soon (as they can't), but assuming that the "China is THE world power" future comes true, it's not something that is beyond possibility. Hence somethign to fear.